King Liverpool Regiment PTE John Lawrence Kelly 1325/30503

[SongbirdRachel]

Hi, hope I am posting in the right topic of the forum. I have my great grandfathers John Lawrence Kelly British Army WW1 Service Record but I’m afraid I need some help reading it, I know that he was in the Kings Liverpool Regiment but trying to determine regiment, what dates he was in France during the war, etc....  Any help, anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated. 

Edited 19 August , 2019 by SongbirdRachel

[charlie962]

Hello SongbirdRachel and welcome to the Forum. There are experts out there on the KLR but whilst awaiting their response here are a few snippets:

 

Firstly I assume that you are certain this John Lawrence Kelly of the KLR is your GGF. Born 1892 and a shoemaker by trade.

 

The Service Record can be interpretted with the help of associated site "the Long Long Trail". Click on the tab at the top left of this page. There are sections for understanding the life of a soldier, interpretting documents and for brief history of the different units.

 

Kelly was a pre-war Territorial in the 8th KLR, He joined 23/5/1911 and served through until 2/6/16 at which point he became 'time expired" and  "declined to re-engage". However as the Service Record shows he was recalled on 13/11/16 and served again with the 8th KLR until transfer to the Army Reserve on 29/4/1919.

 

He first went  over to France  with the 1/8th Battallion on 3/5/1915 when they landed at Boulogne. He was reported wounded in the official Casualty List dated 14/7/15 with a reported date of 27th June 1915, which suggests actual wounding a week or two before that. What the wound was is unclear but he remained in France until May 1916.  He certainly got a good recommendation at the end of his first service, with the Commanding Officer of A Company, 1/8th KLR saying on 8/5/16 that his character was 'very good'.

 

His second spell in France, again 8th Bn, was from 22/6/1917 until ??    He was wounded for a second time in August 1917 (reported in the DailyCasualty List of 7/9/1917). Again no details of the wound.

 

He was entitled to the 1914/15 Star, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. His Service number was 1325 but renumbered in 1917 to 305073.

 

Details of what the Bn did in France I shall leave to others better informed.

 

I hope this gets you started.

 

Charlie

 

 

Edited 19 August , 2019 by charlie962

[BillyH]

Is that him in the Avatar? (because it isn't a KLR cap badge).

There aren't too many service papers available (if I have the right J.L.Kelly), but the one I am looking at enlisted on 23.5.1911 as a pre-war Territorial in the 8th Battalion (Liverpool Irish)

He went to France with the 8th Bn. on 3.5.15 and became time expired on 2.6.16 but he was required to carry on in France. He also served with the 19th Battalion (3rd Pals) and the 2/7th Battalion.

 

BillyH (fellow Wirralian)

[charlie962]

I see there is a photo of him on the site Lives of the First World War.

[SongbirdRachel]

Wow thank you both so much for the warm welcome Charlie962 & BillyH and many thanks for both of your replies. I had absolutely no idea that he was wounded and that he had served with a number of different battalions either. Do you know where I would find the casualty list at all please, if available? Do you know what time expired also means please? That would be absolutely fantastic if people could tell me about what the 8 bn or any of the other battalions that John served in, in France, that would be really appreciated. 

 

The photograph that is on my avatar is my grandad who was Trooper Alfred Renshaw who served with the 13th/18th Hussars, Calvary of the Line in India.

 

The photo posted on Lives of the First World War was posted by me not so long ago, managing to get my bearings around some of the sites.

 

Kindest Regards

Rachel 

[charlie962]

11 minutes ago, SongbirdRachel said:

Do you know what time expired also means please?

As I said above, the LongLongTrail is full of answers. In its section on the Territorial Army it says this which exactly explains what happened to Kelly.

 

The terms of engagement of a TF soldier

Until the introduction of the Military Service Act (MSA) in 1916, most TF recruits were engaged for four years. This could be extended in blocks of four years. Thus a man enlisting in 1908 would “time expire” in 1912. This had an interesting effect on men during war time: for example, a man enlisting in 1911 would time expire in 1915. His service was considered finished and he could go home. Unfortunately as long as he met the MSA criteria, he could be re-enlisted by being conscripted. This applied from 2 March 1916 for single men and 25 May 1916 for married men. Any man time expiring after these dates could also be re-enlisted and usually was. The MSA terms required the man for the duration of the war.

 

Charlie

[charlie962]

19 minutes ago, SongbirdRachel said:

Do you know where I would find the casualty list at all please, if available?

The Casualty Lists were published daily then later in the war republished weekly. The local newspapers often extracted and reported their local casualties. FindmyPast and the Genealogist are subscriber sites that have this info for example.

 

See here on LongLongTrail

 

Charlie

 

PS they won't tell you anything more than I've noted above !

Edited 19 August , 2019 by charlie962

[SongbirdRachel]

Lovely, thanks so much again Charlie, I’ll be sure to visit the LongLongTrail website for further information, Rachel