1/5th RSF Casualties at Gallipoli

[James Brown]

Hi

I've been doing some searching through my RSF database and I came across a number of casualties for this date at Gallipoli.

Why attack 2 days before the Battalion is due to leave the peninsula?

Or do you think it may have been an attack by the Turks on the Battalions position?

If it was an attack it must have been by the Battalion as there are casualtis from A, B, C, E and H Company's.

Thanks

James

[Guest steveb21]

Mate,

I am not aware of why your unit was involved at this time but can to a small degree understand why.

Could this be to impart to the Turks that they (British) were still there and were staying. That no evacuation was planned or going on.

I can not recall any such attacks on the Anzac front before they withdrwaled as we I believe did it by silent attacks or stunts without committing the men.

Why the British didn't follow simular tactics is unknown to me and purhaps one of the other blokes will know more.

Cheers

S.B

[James Brown]

Thanks SB

I did a search on the SDCD for all RSF, not just 1/5th, and there were 16 RSF Causaulties for the specific date of 30th December 1915 at Gallipoli, all but 2 are KIA with the other 2 DOW. On the officers search there were 2 causulties. 2/Lt Samuel Stephen Anderson 1/5th RSF and Andrew Neil Mitchell Lt 1/5th RSF.

On closer inspection of the SDCD search there are 40 Causalties for that date. Among them Royal East Kent Yeomanry, 8th HLI and 7th Glosters. There must have been some kind of action on that date. Wether it was to impart to the Turks they were staying, I dont know.

By this time the Turks must have had some sort of idea of the evacuation. With the other sectors of the peninsula already evacuated, and thousands of men from the Helles sector gone or going, GHQ would have been forced into an attack, if this was an attack? I suppose they would have looked upon the action as a way of saving many more lives, strange though that sounds.

Thanks

James

[michaeldr]

James,

The following may be of some help with this question

From the Official History

“Some disturbing but not unexpected news arrived from Helles on the evening of the 29th December. A Turkish deserter, giving himself up that day, reported that his battalion had received orders for small parties to be continually pushed forward to the British lines, to see if they were still occupied.

Throughout this trying period, the VIII Corps continued to maintain, by bombing, sniping and minor operations, the moral ascendancy it had established over the enemy. On the 29th the 52nd Division completed the capture of the G11 line by seizing all portions of that trench which still remained in Turkish hands, and held them successfully in face of counter attacks.”

From Ray Westlake’s ‘British Regiments at Gallipoli’

“Attack on G11A (29th). Two mines blown at 1.00 pm then assault led by Lieutenants McIntosh and McNaughton. Objectives taken within half hour. Gains – G11A, 40 yards ofG11Y and G11Z. Also communications trenches. Four enemy counter attacks repulsed after dark. Casualties – Second-Lieutenant J. C. Austin and 6 other ranks killed; 5 officers, 31 other ranks wounded. Trenches heavily shelled for over 4 hours (30th Dec). War diary records 50 shells per hour. Casualties – Lieutenant A. N. Mitchell, Second-Lieutenant S. S. Anderson killed; Lieutenant W. J. McNaughton mortally wounded; 16 other ranks killed, 30 wounded. Relieved by 1st Essex (31st Dec) and to rest camp. Ordered to move to ‘V’ Beach for evacuation 7 p.m.

January, 1916

Embarked ‘Prince Abbas’ (1st Jan) and sailed for Mudros.”

Regards

Michael D.R.

[James Brown]

Hi Michael,

I should have looked in Ray Westlake’s book myself.

You’re explanation does explain the state of affairs at the time. It further endorses my view that the opposing forces did know that there was something happening. And in turn, as events unfolded, the 52nd Div was forced into taking action, to keep up the deception that was occurring under the Turks noses.

These men died to no advantage but that of probably saving the estimated thousands of casualties that were predicted when this proposal for evacuation was first advised.

They will never know.

Thanks Michael

James

[James Brown]

Michael

Was the quote you mentioned in you're last post from the Official History of the 52nd Division?

If it is I have just ordered that book from N&MP. So I await in anticipation.

Thanks

James

[michaeldr]

Sorry James; I should have made the source of my 1st quote above clearer.

It was taken from the ‘Official History of the War, Military Operations, Gallipoli,’

Vol. II, page 468

Regards

Michael D.R.

[James Brown]

Michael

Thanks for the source of the book. I will be looking for this book to add to my small collection. I have a very good source to look for it.

Regards

James