John Thomas Anderson

[graniteknighte]

Hi all, this is my first post here, and I am researching my third great grand uncle who was John Thomas Anderson, born 1 September 1898 in Sunderland to Thomas William Anderson and Alice Ranton Anderson, and died 22 March 1918 in France. I don't know much else about him besides the fact that I think he was in the 6th Leicestershire Regiment.

 

I would love to know more if anything can be found.

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. For starters, have you read the How to research a soldier on the Long Long Trail Website as advised in the header to this sub forum? There’s lots of good advice  there to get you started.

 

Michelle 

[RaySearching]

His service number was Pte 39806

Now armed with his service number, and having read The long long trail as advised  by Michelle

You should be able to look up his entry on the Commonwealth Graves Commission Register  (CWGC)

His medal index card  (MIC ) can be found on Ancestry along with the medal rolls and his entry in the soldiers effects register

The war diary for the 6th Leicestershire Regiment should also be able to be found on Ancestry    

Which will give details of the actions the Leicestershire Regiment were involved in  around the time he perished   

 

If not a subscriber to Ancestry you may be able to access the records through Ancestry at your local library

 

 

Ray

[Acknown]

Here is his CWGC entry: https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/852130/anderson,-john-thomas/. He has no grave, but is listed on the POZIERES MEMORIAL.

Here's where the 6th Leicesters War Diary for Mar 18 is located on Ancestry: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43849_2164_1-00000?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=43849_2164_1-00000. If you don't have a subscription, you may be able to use Ancestry for free at your local library. If you want to buy a copy of the War Diary from the National Archives, see here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353180.

At the time of his death, John's battalion, in the 21st Division, was taking part in the The Battle of St Quentin. See here (scroll down): http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/battles/battles-of-the-western-front-in-france-and-flanders/the-first-battles-of-the-somme-1918/.

Acknown

Edited 13 August , 2019 by Acknown

[graniteknighte]

Hi Ray,

 

I have found his Medal Index Card and the CWGC entries as well. I have also found pages from the 6th Leicestershire Regiment from when John Thomas died. My question is now is there anything else? More records, more to know about what he did/how he served?

[Acknown]

It seems that his personal records have not survived, but here is his entry in the Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects on Ancestry: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60506/42511_6117462_0204-00213/124509?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return. I'm no expert, but the amount of his gratuity indicates that he enlisted in about May 16. You can also search for his Medal Roll entry. 

Have a look for him on an Ancestry general search and go to family trees. Some other researchers may have unearthed something that they have recorded.

Thereafter, you might try searching newspaper archives for some local report about him. That said, the chances are that there will be no record anywhere of how he died.

Acknown

[graniteknighte]

What I have is as follows:

The Photo of him is the only one I know of that exists.

[RaySearching]

 

The cap badge on the posted photo does not look like the Leicestershire Regiment to my eyes

 

over to our cap badge experts

 

Ray

 

Edit Lancashire Fusiliers ?

Edited 13 August , 2019 by RaySearching

[Dave66]

Interesting to see he is equipped with the 1913 bayonet and P14 rifle, more associated with reserve/training as opposed to front line action.

Dave.

[RaySearching]

 

There is a small anomaly in the records 

SDGW has died of wounds  Soldiers effect has death presumed 

I would go along with Soldiers effects, reported missing in action presumed to have died on the 21st/ 22nd  March 1918 during the German spring offensive

his body lost to the battlefield or interred in a grave marked  A soldier of the Great War Leicestershire Regiment  (see post 9 on this thread here)

 

Ray

[Michelle Young]

51 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

 

The cap badge on the posted photo does not look like the Leicestershire Regiment to my eyes

 

over to our cap badge experts

 

Ray

 

Edit Lancashire Fusiliers ?

Yes Lancashire Fusiliers.

Michelle 

[charlie962]

An enuqiry was made of the ICRC. Reply was negatif. The record card they have gives D company and 12 platoon, detail you rarely find elsewhere. Perhaps in conjunction with War Diary etc this places him more precisely ? I see you have D Company and 16 platoon on the postcard 1917 as well.

Edited 13 August , 2019 by charlie962

[clk]

Hi,

 

His Soldiers' Effects record shows "22.3.18 Death Presumed", His mother had hoped that he had been taken PoW and made an enquiry to the Red Cross.

 

Image sourced from the ICRC

 

The amount of War Gratuity shown as paid in his Soldiers' Effects record is indicative of service counting from circa March 1917. There are some surviving papers for a couple of other near number Leicester Regiment men which show that they were mobilised in March 1917 first serving in the Training Reserve before being transferred to the Leicestershire Regiment on 15.9.1917.

 

Regards

Chris

 

Edit:

Same as Charlie962

 

Edited 13 August , 2019 by clk

[RaySearching]

14 minutes ago, clk said:

Chris

 

Chris

Assuming the photo is John Thomas Anderson  (there is no reason to doubt it is not)

 

Would it be fair to say that  John was either called up for service or enlisted and was most likely  placed in the Lancashire Regiment during his training period   (re the cap badge) then posted to the Leicestershire Regiment with whom he served overseas

 

 

 

Ray

[clk]

Hi Ray,

50 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Assuming the photo is John Thomas Anderson  (there is no reason to doubt it is not)

 

Would it be fair to say that  John was either called up for service or enlisted and was most likely  placed in the Lancashire Regiment during his training period   (re the cap badge) then posted to the Leicestershire Regiment with whom he served overseas

 

The records I saw were for:

 

39801 Askey

 

39809 Boland

 

39888 Gregory

All images sourced from Findmypast

 

I'm scratching my head a bit. I don't know much about TRBs, but the papers for Askey and French seem to indicate that the were with 11/TRB prior to joining the Leicesters. The LLT (link) suggests that they were formerly the 9 (Reserve) Bn, Lincolnshire Regiment.

 

Regards

Chris

[graniteknighte]

Hi all,

 

I am trying to catch myself up on everything that was posted here. What I can swear to you all is that the photo I have of John Thomas is 100% him and 100% matches the family history I have recorded. How can I help you all with more information? What can I do?

 

I had never known that the International Committee of the Red Cross could hold records, so thank you for finding that. It strikes me as so sad that Alice wrote praying and hoping that he was just taken prisoner somewhere

 

 

[travers61]

The Training Reserve (no regimental affiliation) was still in operation in March 1917, but in May 1917 it changed & trainees placed in young soldier/graduated/senior & junior training battalions affiliated to a regiment. Which one depended on their age.

 

In 1917 they could not be sent to France until the age of 19, so its possible that John Thomas Anderson after completing his training then had to be posted somewhere awaiting his 19th birthday or for specialist training. He could have remained in one of the above maybe a senior training battalion or was posted to the battalion (of a regiment) doing home service.

 

Although in his case with a mobilisation of March 1917 (aged 18 yrs & 8 months) & 19th birthday of Sept 1917, this interim period would not have been long if at all & his mobiliseation at was I assume designed to minimise this period.

 

Even then his regiment could change as he arrived in France in say the 3rd Reserve Btn of x Regiment or still as part of a Training Battalion, and at the base depot in France batches of men were allocated to whatever regiment or Corps needed a draft of men, in his case the 6th Leicesters, as that is the only btn on his medal roll & they had been in France since 1915.

 

If you have not read it Harry Patch talks about his training in his book The Last Fighting Tommy. He is:

Mobilised & reports at Taunton October 1916 aged 18 & 3 months

Then basic training at Exmouth.

early 1917 to 33rd Training Reserve at Sutton Veny, Wilts (33rd TR Bn was prev 13th Res Bn Royal Warwickshires)

May/June 1917 finished training

June 1917 to France with others from the 33rd TR Bn & posted to 7th Duke of Cornwalls LI. for front line service (his friend Charlie who he trained in the 33rd with & was in the same base camp in France went to the Somerset LI)

 

But this comment about what cap badge he wore is interesting:

 

........... where I joined the 33rd Training Reserve Battalion. At this point we wern't attached to any regiment, although before we joined the 33rd I wore several different regimental cap badges, the warwickshire regiment being one, so I must have been shifted around.

 

 

 

[RaySearching]

Took a few creases out  and adjusted the photo slightly

 

 

Ray

[graniteknighte]

Thank you Ray!

[charlie962]

17 hours ago, RaySearching said:

Took a few creases out  and adjusted the photo slightly

That's a good bit of work.

[graniteknighte]

So overall we think that the house/barracks type structure he is standing in front of is from his time in training? Just curious

[sadbrewer]

On 13/08/2019 at 02:08, graniteknighte said:

Hi all, this is my first post here, and I am researching my third great grand uncle who was John Thomas Anderson, born 1 September 1898 in Sunderland to Thomas William Anderson and Alice Ranton Anderson, and died 22 March 1918 in France. I don't know much else about him besides the fact that I think he was in the 6th Leicestershire Regiment.

 

I would love to know more if anything can be found.

From The Sunderland Echo, May 10, 1919...courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive. 

[travers61]

For me I think the photo was taken in training due to:

 

type of Rifle

type of Pouches/webbing

apparent age

regimental badge not shown on his medal records

smartness/polish of uniform & kit

Also the number 860 on the ground could be a photographers number when he visited the camp & photographed recruits, who would have been eager to send a first photo home. Bulk photographing of recruits turned out smartly is much more likley in a UK camp.

 

[RaySearching]

1 hour ago, sadbrewer said:

From The Sunderland Echo, May 10, 1919...courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive. 

 

 

 

 

 

Photo of Vaux and sons Castle Street Brewery where John was employed prior to the war

 

Your next project is to find out if a memorial plaque for Vaux Brewery  for the the Great War naming employees of Vaux Brewery who fell exists 

also on which war memorial or memorials is he commemorated on in Sunderland

 

Ray

 

I couldn't help but notice the newspaper cutting was found by a sad  brewer  

 

[Doug504]

36 Outram Street, Houghton Le Spring, still in existence approx 10 minutes drive from my home. Former terraced miners cottages on outskirts of Sunderland, coincidentally about 5 minutes walk from the local drill hall ( now a furniture warehouse).

 

Doug

Edited 15 August , 2019 by Doug504
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