Victoria cross

[Guest]

Trying to find my great grandfathers service records and identify the regiment, I think it could be the Munster Fusiliers.

I am also trying to identify the VC recipient.

 

can anyone help please?

 

many thanks for looking.

 

regards

 

Tony C

[Jools mckenna]

William Cosgrove?

[DavidOwen]

Hi Tony

Welcome to the forum.

More details on your relative please such as name, service number, DoB etc. will help the members to help you with your research.

Regards

David

[Guest]

Joseph Byrne 19/3/88 or 83

lived in Dublin and married Catherine 

no service number 

Sorry I have only just become aware of this

[FROGSMILE]

It’s not the other RMF OR VC, Doyle (who was an extraordinary character!), so I too think it’s Cosgrove:

 

For most conspicuous bravery leading this section with great dash during our attack from the beach to the east of Cape Helles on the Turkish positions on 26 April 1915.

 

“Cpl Cosgrove on this occasion pulled down the posts of the enemy’s high wire entanglements single-handed, notwithstanding a terrible fire from both front and flank, thereby greatly contributing to the successful clearing of the heights.”

 

Cosgrove transferred to the Royal Fusiliers in 1918, to the Leinster Regiment in 1920, the Northumberland Fusiliers in 1922, and later went as an Instructor to the Indian Territorial Force in 1928 to become 7042223 Staff Sgt Instructor. He came home in 1935 pending discharge to pension. However, he was admitted to Millbank hospital, and took discharge before he was fit. After a short leave in Cork, he returned to London, where he was admitted to Middlesex hospital. He was later transferred to Millbank hospital London, where he died on 21 July 1936 aged 47.

 

 

Edited 30 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Numanoid817]

Definitely not Cosgrove. Cosgrove was 6ft 6in tall. Most likely (in my opinion) to be John Joseph Caffrey VC.

[FROGSMILE]

It certainly looks more like him than the photos of Cosgrove so I’m sure you must be right.  I looked on the RMF website but could only find three VCs, one officer and two NCOs.  I clearly need to research the regiment further.

 

Afternote: I see that he was York and Lancaster Regiment and not RMF.  I wonder what the connection was for them to be photographed together.  Perhaps they came in contact as boys.

Edited 3 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[ajsmith]

The problem I have with the Caffrey ID is that he is still a private at the end of the war and is still being referred to with that rank when he attends a dinner at the House of Lords for VC winners in 1929. It's only in the mid 1930s that he is referred to by any other rank and that is as sergeant and later sergeant major. The photo is clearly of a corporal.

[travers61]

This quote gives alternative time for his promotions:

 

He was gazetted on 22nd January 1916 and received his VC from King George V at Buckingham Palace on 23rd February 1916. He was then swiftly promoted to Corporal and then Sergeant. He served through the remainder of the war, and was discharged on 8th February 1922, and was issued Silver War Badge 187425. He had married Florence Annie Avey on 24th March 1917 in Cambridge. They lived in Derby and had no children.

http://www.vconline.org.uk/john-j-caffrey-vc/4586139117

 

The photo of him with Joseph Byrne has a feeling of rural Ireland about it. Maybe he went home to the area/village in Ireland to a family gathering or some sort of recruiting drive. 

 

Does the stick Joseph Byrne is carrying tell us anything, as I think they were usually used when walking outside of the barracks.

 

Edited 3 May , 2020 by travers61

[FROGSMILE]

45 minutes ago, travers61 said:

 

Does the stick Joseph Byrne is carrying tell us anything, as I think they were usually used when walking outside of the barracks.

 

The revised promotion dates seem very significant to me.

 

The stick doesn’t tell us anything really other than as you say his carriage of it indicates that he is walking out of barracks.  It is important in modern times, when personal freedoms are seen as a given, to note that a soldier had no freedom to leave barracks other than with specific permission.  He had to sign out daily when he did, and back in when he returned, all recorded in the guardroom.  If he wasn’t going to return by tattoo (usually 6pm, or sunset) then he required a leave of absence pass with the set number of days (and thus nights) clearly annotated and countersigned.  On the occasion of the photo he is either out for the day, or for several days.

Edited 3 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[ajsmith]

I am not entirely convinced about that source. It's mostly accurate he worked for The River Wear Watch (from 1919), Cammel Laird etc but the Silver War Badge referred was issued to Corporal Stirk of the RAMC one of the men Private Caffrey rescued during his VC exploit. According to the medal rolls Private Caffrey was discharged to Reserve B on the 30th March 1919.