Identification of convalescent RFC officers 1917

[PRC]

Kenneth Andrew Creery.

 

His Canadian Service record shows him born 11th February 1894 at Vancouver, Canada. He enlisted on September 25th 1914 at Valcartier, Quebec in the 16th Battalion. His next of kin to be notified is a Andrew McC Creevey but there is no family relationship between them shown.

He was commissioned into the RAF on the 5th August 1915 and Struck off the Strength of the C.E.F..

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=125038

 

On the 1901 Census of Canada there is a 5 year old Kenneth A Creery, born British Columbia, recorded in a household at Burrard, British Columbia. He is shown as of Irish ethnicity. Only his mother, Annie Creery was on the census but she is recorded as married and the wife of the head of the household. Annie has 5 other children including 1 year old twins.

That family, again headed by Annie Creery, was recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales Canada living in Vancouver.

 

A marriage took place in St Johnsburg, Vermont on the 30th September 1960 that involved the 66 year old Kenneth Andrew Creery, born Vancouver and then living at Appartment 74, 3510 Mountain Street, His father was Andrew McCreight Creery, born County Antrim, and his mother was Anna Hulbert, born Watford, England.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L978-4911?i=1567&cc=2075288&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKFT4-L86

 

There is a picture of him here in 1914 " before he went off to Europe to fight in World War I as a test pilot.”

https://gregwilliams.ca/tag/kenneth-andrew-creery/

 

Edited 15 August , 2019 by PRC
Correct the census location

[Madmeg]

Hi Guys- thanks for the info- just remember to check my original listing at the very head of the page as I keep adding to it as time goes along- the spreadsheet is only for cut diown details and easier reading- - saves some duplication of effort as I had already entered some of the info for FH Beer onto his main profile (but not the spread sheet- sorry) and for KA Creery and AB Williams, 

Cheers

 

[PRC]

1 hour ago, Madmeg said:

Hi Guys- thanks for the info- just remember to check my original listing at the very head of the page as I keep adding to it as time goes along- the spreadsheet is only for cut diown details and easier reading- - saves some duplication of effort as I had already entered some of the info for FH Beer onto his main profile (but not the spread sheet- sorry) and for KA Creery and AB Williams, 

Cheers

 

Meg,

 

I did check before posting and it did seem to be additional information or correct incorrect statements that were appearing there. Happy to wait until you've finished \ run into brick walls if that is what you'd prefer.

 

As usual there is always a risk of duplication of effort on this sort of thread.

 

In case there is any value in it, here's what I found for Gerald Davies.

 

AIR 76/124/139 shows born 18th July 1888. His permanent address was given as the British Empire Club 12 St James Street, London. His next of kin was his mother, Mrs G F Davies of 9 Bramerton Street, Chelsea, London.

 

At the time of the RAF Census he was recorded as a Permanently unfit Pilot + Observer fit Home Service C1. His career summary was

“2 years + 2 months in A.S.C. (Horse Transport)

2 years + 2 months with 4th. Div. Train A.S.C. B.E.F. 1 year 9 months of that tome was Adjutant and gained a lot of experience of “Q” work being in constant touch with Q Branch of Div. Staff.”

Mentioned in Despatches 1st January 1917. In civilian life worked for Ernest Crabb at the London Stock Exchange, (can’t make out date from but it is up to 1914). He returned from 52 Squadron to the Home Establishment on the 16th August 1917 and remained there for the rest of the war. He would have medical boards in September, October, November and December 1917, all of which found him unfit for General Service.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8252509

 

According to his MiC he first arrived in France on the 29th December 1914, so a year and 9 months on would put his date of transfer to the RFC as circa September 1916. His 1914/15 Star was issued with the rank of Lieutenant.

 

52 Squadron were in France and Flanders and according to Jeffords, RAF Squadrons they switched over from BE2F’s and BE2G’s to RE8’s in July 1917.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/117679-52-squadron-royal-flying-corps/

 

A Captain G Davies and a Captain Robert William Paylor Hall of 52 Squadron were recorded as the crew of R.E.8 serial A4225.

http://www.theaerodrome.com/aircraft/serial_numbers.php?pageNum_serials=782&totalRows_serials=16893&q=&sortby=3

17th July 1917. Capt R W P Hall (Wia) & Capt G Davies (OK), 52 Sqn, RE8 A4225 - shot down by AA between Oost Dunkerke and Nieuport on artillery observation

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-68280.html

 

The baptism of a Gerald Davies, born 18th July 1888, took place at St Mary’s, Walthamstow, Essex on the 11th November 1888. His parents were George Frederick & Ada Lucy Davies.

 

The most likely marriage of the parents occurred in the Edmonton District of Middlesex in 1884, when a George Frederick Davies married an Ada Lucy Crabb. However I couldn't find a likely birth records for a Gerald Davies, mothers maiden name Crabb recorded in the right time period – however there are several Gerald Davies for whom there was no mothers’ maiden name transcribed, including one registered in the West Ham District in Q3 1888.

 

To track them down on the civil records, as Davies and those forenames are so common. I first of all look for the birth of Ada Lucy Crabb and found only one match in the birth records for England & Wales from 1837 – 1911. This was registered in the Islington District in Q2 of 1862.

Looking for an Ada Lucy Davies born Islington circa 1862 brought up an Ada L , aged 28, on the 1891 Census of England & Wales. She was recorded as the Wife of the head of household at 35 West Bank, Hackney, London. However her husband was not there on the night of the census. She has 4 children living with her including the 2 year old Gerald, born Walthamstow. Also living with her was her widowed Mother in Law, Esther Davies, and visiting was a Maud M Crabb, born Dalston, London.

 

Couldn’t find them on the 1901 Census, but on the 1911 Census the 48 year old widow Ada Lucy Davies, born Barnbury, London, was recorded as the head of the household at 24 Crescent Road, Bromley, Kent. Among her three unmarried children living there was her 23 year old son Gerald, born Walthamstow, a Stock Exchange Clerk.

 

Couldn’t find an obvious death record.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited 14 August , 2019 by PRC
Typo

[Madmeg]

5 minutes ago, PRC said:

I did check before posting and it did seem to be additional information or correct incorrect statement that were appearing there. Happy to wait until you've finished \ run into brick walls if that is what you'd prefer.

 

As usual there is always a risk of duplication of effort on this sort of thread.

 

That cool- I just didnt want people to spend ages trying to look for stuff I already spent ages hunting down :-D 

I appreciate that my notes above are necessarily abreviated (lack of time) .at least you don;t have to try and read my terrible handwriting :-D

 

To summarise for more clarity- In the original post  UPDATE contains all the details I have been ferreting out- hopefully thare aren;t too many errors but no doubt some have crept in- including on the originals.First UPDATE contains transcriptions of the military records (where found ) from FMP. Where I couldn't find these the first update may contain other biographical info instead. Later Updates are numbered as I get round to them- UPDATE 2 etc. At some stage I will try and tidy it all up but it is very much a work in progress right now.I'm just going to keep on adding to the UPDATEs as I find out more and will also keep the spreadsheet updated as I go on.

 

If people are taking time to look stuff up I very much appreciate it but I'd hate to think they are spending time on documents which I have already checked thinking that I haven;t found them- but if people want to take more time to do a fuller transcription that's wonderful- as long as they are happy to do so- knowing that the documents have already been found :-). When I get round to tidying up I'll include the full details above into the biographies for the men so they are all together.

 

One thing I have not been able to find/got round to are medal cards for any of these (except my own GF)- if anyone is looking for a project......... :-), obviously these might give more useful ID  and movement info?

 

Fantastic info on G Davies thank you Peter- and great info on GEG Craig above as well- he moved about quite a bit didn;t he!

 

My own GF would be tricky to track if I didn;t have a reasonable idea of his movements already (although I am looking to flesh them out with dates as I go on) - haven't time before work at the moment to document all his travels around the world as yet.

 

Happy hunting all :-)

 

 

 

[PRC]

Charles Edward William Foster

 

Service records shows joined up on the 24th August 1914 when he was 19 years and 3 months old, having been born Sydney, New South Wales. He was discharged from the A.E.F having obtained a Commission in the Royal Flying Corps effective 27th December 1915. He had been serving with the 2nd Battery, 1st Australian Field Artillery Brigade. Next of kin appears to be a Mr C E Foster, of Valley Heights, Western Line, New South Wales.

 

Other than putting his date of birth as circa April \ May 1895 and giving a different middle initial for his father that doesn’t add much.

 

I couldn’t seem to find a MiC or Airmens Service Records for him. His Long Service Papers are probably the ones shown for 2/Lieutenant Charles Edward William Foster, General List, which are held under reference WO 339/52565

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1106418

(His 1914/15 Star was issued by the Australian Authorities).

 

22nd January 1917.

Capt C E W Foster (Inj) & 2nd Lt F R White (Inj; DoI 23-Jan-17), 10 Sqn, BE2g A2742 - collided in air near aerodrome with A2744 on practice regn
2nd Lt S W Woodley (Killed) & 2nd Lt W Kellett (Killed), 10 Sqn, BE2g A2744 - collided in air near aerodrome with A2742 on photography.

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-67204.html

 

Bert James.

 

Relevant additional parts on what I posted in connection with the picture of the headstone on Flickr.

 

There is a brief notice in the edition of Flight dated May 16th 1918.
Captain Bert James RAF, who was accidentally killed while flying on May 7th, aged 22, was the only son of Mrs J C James of Semaphore, South Australia
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1918/1918 - 0546.html?search=James

The only likely match in the GRO index of deaths is for a Bert James, aged 22, whose death was recorded in the Dartford district of Kent in the April to June 1918 quarter.

 

His RAF records are available at the National Archive under reference AIR 76/253/47 and gives his date of birth as 8th June 1895.

Bert’s home address is given as the Bank of Adelaide, Leadenhall Street, London, although I assume that just dealt with his business affairs. His mother Mrs J C James is given as his next of kin. Her original contact address, Military Road, Semaphore, South Australia, has been crossed out and amended to 102 Victoria Street, Prospect, Adelaide, South Australia, with the date 31.8.21 beside it.

It has him down as moving to the 63rd Squadron, but the date is indecipherable on the first page. The next entry has him killed in an aero accident on the 7th May 1918 at home.
There is an annotation beside this but apart from the word “Aero” (possibly “Avro”), the only word I can make out is Dartford.

On the second page there is what is labelled as a census report - It notes that he had General Experience in Electrical and Internal Combustion Engineering.

Since joining the RFC he had experience of flying on included Avro’s, Bleriots, D.H.’s, G W Bullets, Morane Bullets, Biplane and Parasol, Bristol Scout and Sop Scout.

His occupation in civil life was an Electrical Engineer.

On the fourth page there is a record of his postings

03/06/1916 - 28/06/1916.……………….Oxford
28/06/1916 - no date…………………….7RS
No date - 17/08/1916.……………………8RS
17/08/1916 - 24/09/1916.………………..1RS
24/09/1916 - 30/07/1917.………………..3 Squadron
30/07/1917 - 27/08/1917.……………….Home Establishment
27/08/1917- no date……………………..62 TS
Notice dated 09/09/17.…………………..40 TS
Notice dated 01/10/1917.……………….86(?) Sqdn
Notice dated 15/10/1917.……………….Eastern Brigade N.E.P
Notice dated 06/12/1917.………………..63 TS

Appointments and Promotions

14/06/1916.………2nd Lt (On Probation ATC)
05/10/1916.………Confirmed
09/09/1916.………Flying Officer
03/08/1917.……….Lieutenant
11/09/1917.………Temporary Captain & Flight Commander

 

Question – is it possible to make out from the picture whether he has the third pip of a Captain?

That might indicate the picture had to be taken on the 11th September or later.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Madmeg]

Ref Bert James- as per original post and the spreadsheet on page two (sorry can't see a post number against it) the Tatler lists him as a Captain

 

 

 

[PRC]

3 hours ago, Madmeg said:

Ref Bert James- as per original post and the spreadsheet on page two (sorry can't see a post number against it) the Tatler lists him as a Captain

 

 

 

Agreed - probably because that was the rank he was when the picture was published. The reporter may have contacted Hillington Hall to check the details and been informed of Bert James' promotion, or as the armed forces can be very status aware, Bert James may have contacted the magazine to let them know of his new rank.

 

The relevant part to dating the photograph is whether his uniform shows him as a Captain or a Lieutenant. Captain points to the picture being taken on or after 11th Septembr 1917, Lieutenant means between 3rd August 1917 and the 11th September 1917. There may be a couple of days delay in wearing the additional pip on each promotion, but I suspect these non-battlefield promotions were known about in advance and a pip would have already been sourced.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Madmeg]

 I have him as Gazette Lt 1/7/17 and Capt t/ft commander 25/8/17- the gazette would surely be after the actual (although I generally tried to write down the actual date where it was given rather than the reported date) . So that is a bt earlier than 11/9/17. That is from his record.

Three pips. He's the chap on (our) right to the nurse.

[PRC]

27 minutes ago, Madmeg said:

 I have him as Gazette Lt 1/7/17 and Capt t/ft commander 25/8/17- the gazette would surely be after the actual (although I generally tried to write down the actual date where it was given rather than the reported date) . So that is a bt earlier than 11/9/17. That is from his record.

 

 

Quite right - just looked at the record and realised I'd transposed the column headers London Gazette and Effective Date. Sorry about that.

 

Still it brings this forward in time a few days - you thought the earliest this group could have been together was the 17th August in your post #45, (the one with the spreadsheet!).

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Madmeg]

Any idea what ABO is? I see it against some of the men's unfit for duty records? It appears to be where they are to report to as some have Norwich against them- eg my GF has ABO for the earlier dates and Norwch later on.

[Madmeg]

Andrew McCraight Creery father of Kenneth Andrew...

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/grand_masters/creery_a/obituary.html

And Anna hulbert mother

https://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/anna-hulbert-24-bmk4sn

 

University graduation list KA and brothers RH, CJ and C (pages 7 and 8)

https://graduation.sites.olt.ubc.ca/files/2012/11/congreg_1918_spring.pdf

 

 

Addendum from TWE post on 36 CCS

 

C.J .Creery RFC brought in dead of wounds 25/10/1916

Edited 31 August , 2019 by Madmeg

[PRC]

If it is the Australian Captain James, then his Airmens record gives us some other potential scenarios about the picture. He isn’t a Captain until the 25th August 1917 and is granted 3 weeks leave after being medically boarded on the 2nd October 1917 – presumably for the period 3rd to the 24th.

 

The picture appears in the edition of The Tatler dated 24th October 1917.

 

Given the shadows I would hazard a guess of late morning \ early afternoon which potentially could rule out a day when an officer like James was at a Medical Board – as he was on the 20th September 1917. Big Halls in England, like Churches, are normally aligned to the compass points, with a tendency to make the entrance doorway on the south face. To balance that they could have been on British Double Summer Time at this time of the year \ war.

 

In gathering your information for each officer you may want to give some consideration to what days they might have been away on medical boards \ leave, as you may find that as a result there is a very small number of days when this picture could have been taken. However, could be a lot of work for a “nice to know”

 

So going back to Captain James, two options.

1.      He is a Convalscent patient there during the period 25th August to (at a push) 2nd October, and the picture was most likely taken on a day when he wasn’t attending a medical board.

2.      This was a quiet country retreat frequented by RFC officers who didn’t have UK family or friends to stay with and who didn’t fancy staying in a hotel in one of the big cities.That would put him there from circa 3rd to the 24th October.

 

I don’t know why Bert James is buried at Beeston Regis on the North Norfolk coast – he has no family here in Norfolk that I can discover, his Training Squadron unit wasn’t based here, his body wasn’t recovered \ washed ashore here, he’s not on the War Memorial and so far I’ve found nothing in the Norfolk Press. Finding him (potentially) on this picture opens up the possibility that he made friends with a local family or a local girl in the late summer \ early autumn of 1917 and that is why he rests where he does.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited 15 August , 2019 by PRC
Typo

[Madmeg]

The crash was apparently at Temple Farm, Joyce Green which appears to be Dartford in Kent? as you say,strange that he should be repatriated to Norfolk, perhaps family connections- will try to follow that up, James is not exactly an uncommon names  though :-(

 

From the extremely little I can find on Hillington Hall. Mrs Dawnay seems to have offered it for convalescent officers for the duration and the RFC took it up. It is near Sandringham and offered huntin shootin and fishin type relaxation (for men who had been hunted and shot at ;-) ) anyway the air aces site has some photos taken December 1917 of - oops names forgotten- enjoying what it had to offer. It looks to be a "proper" miltary hospital not just a retreat. note Mrs Dawnay's "title" of Commandant which I assume implies she is the boss so the men there knew where they stood.

 

No indication of how many men were taken in at one time, there is a nurse on site (maybe more than one?) so some medical attention. I would guess that it was one of (many?) places to conveniently place men who were still in some need of looking after and not quite fit enough to be useful while still being fairly active who would make a nuisance of themselves in a Hospital. My GF is noted as having a medical board in Norwich in (Nov must check) 1917

There are old OS maps online which I havent checked out which would probably show orientation. Given the strength of the sun September looks more likely to me than an English October but.....

 

Ref medical boards- that is an idea I had considered- I note that KA Creery is marked as absentee on his board for the 15th October......

 

Any idea of where ABO might be? That is marked against medical board dates for my GF and for FH Beer so I assume that is where it was held

[Madmeg]

 some interesting information on the Dartford airfield here- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Joyce_Green it seems Bert James was pretty unlucky to be posted there as it had a reputation as a bit of a death trap! and 63 TS were pulled out of there c October 1918

 

List of all who were at Dartford  here- http://www.airwar1.org.uk/raf personnel list.htm

Posting this for my future reference as some of the other men above may have been with these sqs.

Edited 15 August , 2019 by Madmeg

[PRC]

1 hour ago, Madmeg said:

There are old OS maps online which I havent checked out which would probably show orientation.

Try http://www.historic-maps.norfolk.gov.uk/mapexplorer/

You have a choice of maps including the 1901 Ordnance Survery. I've attached a crop showing Hillington Hall with the top of the map being North.

 

1 hour ago, Madmeg said:

Given the strength of the sun September looks more likely to me than an English October but.....

Given the weather in Flanders for Passchendaele in September & October I suspect it may have been a wet autumn in East Anglia as well. October will quite often bring an "Indian Summer", so can't be ruled out.

 

1 hour ago, Madmeg said:

Any idea of where ABO might be

 

Can't think of anywhere particular - presume it means something like Area Board Office so may be a generic term. I have come across references to regional travelling boards towards the end of the war so could be an Anglia one. Medical Boards for non-inpatients seem to have been held at either the Norfolk & Norwich Hospital in the centre of Norwich or at the Thorpe War Hospital on the south-east side of the city. However given where they were staying, it may have been just as easy for them to get to Cambridge or Peterborough.

 

One more throught. A number of these men have been through near-death experiences and there seems to be a theme developing of them not returning to combat squadrons.

 

In the picture they seem fairly healthy. Is it possible that in effect they have PTSD \ Combat Stress? Not as far as "LMF" but enough to keep them away from the comtrols of a plane even though their bodies are well on the way to being healed.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Madmeg]

I found some interesting stuff relating to Mrs Dawnay in later life.She became a follower of Fascism and stood for Moseleys lot as an MP in the 30's. She apparently tried to get herself arrested as a protest but M15 decided she wasn't dangerous . I found a couple of historical biographies on some sites giving the history of Fascism in the UK- the pages I found were purely historical in nature although the sites themselves would appear to probably espouse ideas I do not agree with. I leave it to others to follow it up if they so desire, I wont post the links here.

[Madmeg]

REF Bert James

 

So going back to Captain James, two options.

1.      He is a Convalscent patient there during the period 25th August to (at a push) 2nd October, and the picture was most likely taken on a day when he wasn’t attending a medical board.

2.      This was a quiet country retreat frequented by RFC officers who didn’t have UK family or friends to stay with and who didn’t fancy staying in a hotel in one of the big cities.That would put him there from circa 3rd to the 24th October.

 

I don’t know why Bert James is buried at Beeston Regis on the North Norfolk coast – he has no family here in Norfolk that I can discover, his Training Squadron unit wasn’t based here, his body wasn’t recovered \ washed ashore here, he’s not on the War Memorial and so far I’ve found nothing in the Norfolk Press. Finding him (potentially) on this picture opens up the possibility that he made friends with a local family or a local girl in the late summer \ early autumn of 1917 and that is why he rests where he does.

 

Cheers,

 

How about this...

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/australian-who-died-in-ww1-remembered-at-north-norfolk-church-1-5498521

 

The picture of him looks very like the man in my photo- identical in fact, nice to know they were comemorating him

[PRC]

23 hours ago, Madmeg said:

How about this...

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/australian-who-died-in-ww1-remembered-at-north-norfolk-church-1-5498521

 

The picture of him looks very like the man in my photo- identical in fact, nice to know they were comemorating him

 

Thanks for that - a maternal grandfather, how could I possibly have missed that

 

I have a vague memory that the village historian named contacted me after I first did a write up on someone elses picture on Flickr about a year before I posted my own picture. Good to see he took it on another level.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited 17 August , 2019 by PRC
Typo

[Madmeg]

I'm trying to contact him to see if he has any more information.

[Madmeg]

REF HRS Birkin...

 

Found this on another topic.

 

His military career doesn't seem very hard to find today RFC service at any rate is available - but OP was in 2008. But I do note that various references have hiom down in various regiments- Warwickshire, Norfolk/Suffolk yeomanry but RFC record shows 7th Sherwood Forresters- which is a Nottinghamshore regt I assume.

There is another thread concerning his brother Thomas who was also RFC and was killed during training. 

Note that the Airhistory excel sheet only lists the brother not HRS.

 

I've been watching a youtube version of the Full Throttle Drama doco on his later life- but it is all post WW1 as far as I have watched. Rowan Atkinson as HRS. 

Quite intriguing.

[Madmeg]

Getting interested in the backstory of the Birkins here.

Most biographies I have seen describe HRS Birkin as hereditary titled . landed gentry etc.  But I was finding it rather odd. 

His father is described as a 'lace manufacturer" in the census- and my understanding of the "landed gentry" is that they would rather have cut off their own kneecaps with a silver fish slice than have anything to do with something as common as "trade". Plus when HRS "Tim" joined up he was studying engineering at Nottingham University (or rather University College as it then was)- not the Oxford or Cambridge that you would have expected.

So the family is a bit more interesting than your average 'Landed gentry"- the more I read the more interesting they get.

 

Turns out that the "Sir" came quite late to the family.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkin_baronets

The Lace firm was founded by Richard Birkin (1805-1870 ) A self made man who started working at the age of seven and taught himself to read and write http://mapperleyandsherwoodhistorygroup.co.uk/a-light-hearted-look-at-the-birkin-family  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Thomas_Birkin,_1st_Baronet  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Birkin

When Richard snr retired in 1856 the sons Richard and Thomas Isaac took over - there are a number of parents for lace patterns issued to Birkin Brothers up until about 1880 (also for Birkin and Sands) . Richard jnr retired 1862 so Thomas was in charge. One of the Richard's was Mayor of Nottingham at one point. http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/books/nottsillus1898/textiles02.htm

Thomas expanded the firm to America and Germany.

Thomas Isaac and wife Harriet Tebutt had nine children- several of whom were in the military- Thomas Stanley (HRS father) was the oldest.

Thomas Isaac was "baronetted"(what would be the word? ) in 1905- created for him so he was the 1st Baronet. By this time TI was also involved in Railways and Shipping. He died in 1922.

 

So oor Tim was not born into the landed gentry at all - he was born into a wealthy family of course but one with its feet fairly solidly grounded in trade.

A cousin Winifred "Freda" May (Dudley Ward) was the mistress of one David Windsor up until he became enamoured of Wallis Simpson.

 

Tim's father the 2nd Baronet Thomas Stanley didn't die until 1931 so Tim was only a Sir for the last two years of his life. 

 

Now on another thread someone was looking for Tim's older brother Thomas Renard Chetwin. The younger brother Charles Archibald Cecil went to Eton - but the poster couldn't find any public school records for the other boys (Eton or anywhere else) - I'm wondering if given the family background if the older boys (born 1895 and 1896 ) went to a local Nottingham school while the youngest (born 1905 and the grandson of the a Baronet) was able to get into Eton.....

 

If anyone is in the Nottingham area and able to check archives this might be interesting....https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/N13965071 (it's not held at TNA but the page gives the Notts archives holding number Notts Archives dont list it uder Birkin)  (the research notes for this book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Birkins-Nottingham-John-L-Drapkin/dp/B0021YPTJ0)

 

So HRS "Tim" Birkin is a LOT more interesting than most of the online bios would imply :-) 

[Waddell]

The Motor Sport archives have been online for several years now and contain plenty of snippets of Sir Henry Birkin and his family.

 

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/search/birkin

 

You may already be aware of this.

 

Scott

[Madmeg]

4 minutes ago, Waddell said:

The Motor Sport archives have been online for several years now and contain plenty of snippets of Sir Henry Birkin and his family.

 

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/search/birkin

 

You may already be aware of this.

 

Scott

Thanks Scott,

I found them a couple of hours ago- unfortunately the first time I accessed them I got the message that I had already used 4 of my 10 free articles! I'm trying to look at the diary of the RFC officer- from what I have accessed I'm pretty sure they do NOT relate to HRS.

[nieuport11]

H.R.S. 'Tim' Birkin

 

The Diary of an RFC Officer relates to SIR ALASTAIR MILLER, BARONET OF DUNBLANE

https://scepticpeg.wordpress.com/2018/04/08/sir-alastair-miller-baronet-of-dunblane/

 

 

[Madmeg]

28 minutes ago, nieuport11 said:

H.R.S. 'Tim' Birkin

 

The Diary of an RFC Officer relates to SIR ALASTAIR MILLER, BARONET OF DUNBLANE

https://scepticpeg.wordpress.com/2018/04/08/sir-alastair-miller-baronet-of-dunblane/

 

 

Ah thanks- I had already picked it wasn;t HRS- it was suggested on another post that it migh be - but I had worked out from the bts I read that it couldnt be