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Madmeg

Identification of convalescent RFC officers 1917

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Madmeg

This has to be the case because he had been in France/Flanders with the 3rd Battalion Canadian Pioneers since 18 July 1916 until on 3rd January 1917 he had been attached to the RFC.  Within a day or two or a few days at most of that he was with 5 Squadron as an observer on probation.  On 29th January my grandfather and he flew together for the first time and (other when one of them was on leave) they continued to fly together on a number of occasions until May.  So there is just no way Craig was at the School of Technical Training from January 1917 until April 1918.  I have the advantage of having been through his Canadian record and my grandfather's log books and such 5 squadron records as there are for this period as well as the AIR 76.

 

Just reread- his experience looks similar to my GF- he was an NCO with duke of Lancaster Own yeomanry until he got his commission 1 or 2 (;-) ) jan 17 and after one weeks leave was straight out there as an observer with 8 sq- ending just a few days later with his injury.

 

I'm finding it interesting what a difference there is in the varying amounts of info on each of these men. My Gf is actually pretty well documented- although there isnt much written on his records (compared to some of the above where details are better). While some of them I can;t find any RFC records - or any for this period- at all- eg Leonard Warner St George.

 

Also of note is how many of these men did not have much flying after this picture. My grandfather never saw service overseas again- in fact being shot in the ankle was probably the best thing that happened to him- may well have saved his life as he missed the Bloody Spring of 1917 - and he got to meet my grandmother during his recuperation. His injuries were classed as "minor" . From what I have recorded from the records above many continued to be unfit for flying service for many months after this photo was taken. Not all of course but quite a few.

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charlie962
14 minutes ago, Madmeg said:

While some of them I can;t find any RFC records

Did you pick up on the links I posted earlier for 4 of the men ? (Stocks, Stroud, Davies and Williams)

 

Charlie

Edited by charlie962

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Madmeg
6 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Did you pick up on the links I posted earlier for 4 of the men ? (Stocks, Stroud, Davies and Williams)

 

Charlie

The links don;t seem to take me anywhere- they just go back to my post. Plus I don;t have a subscritpion so can only check at the library- but ref the first part of this sentence :-)

 

Williams I have posted above medical details for a likely candidate, and for Stroud.

 

Edited by Madmeg

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Madmeg

Something which has been intriguing me since I first started researching this photo many months ago.

 

The wide range of uniforms displayed in this pic.

Am I right in thinking that a general order went out banning RFC men from wearing anything other than the official RFC maternity smock in July 1917?

Up until I found the location of the photo  was actually wondering if it could have been much earlier- ie jan/Feb 1917 when my GF first joined the RFC.

 

So how come these men are OK not wearing the official RFC uniform? is it because they are convalescent? or out of the publlc eye? My GF certainly had a proper RFC uniform as he is wearing it in the earlier photos taken in Bournemouth. There is such a mixture of styles on display there!

 

And- my GF appears in the records as on he General List- whereas some men are "attached" from such and such regiment. Is this because he would have had to resign from his regiment to take up the commission in the RFC?

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PRC
3 hours ago, Madmeg said:

The wide range of uniforms displayed in this pic.

Am I right in thinking that a general order went out banning RFC men from wearing anything other than the official RFC maternity smock in July 1917?

 

The RFC, as part of the Army, didn't provide uniforms to officers - they had to buy them themselves. They were very restricted in the design they could clothe themselves in, but had great leeway over the quality of material, lining and stitching and whether it was tailored or off the peg. An officer who originally served with another unit would have purchased uniforms to that units' agreed pattern. He would remain on the nominal strength of that unit even when he became attached to the Royal Flying Corps.

 

A man who was promoted from the ranks or came straight in at the officer level would be put on the General List of Officers and from there attached to the Royal Flying Corps. The approved design for them to buy would from the outset be the Royal Flying Corps \ standard one.

 

My understanding is that the uniform problem persisted with the creation of the RAF - they couldn't insist on officers ditching their existing uniforms wholesale and buying a new one. The compromise was that as parts wore out or were lost they would be replaced with the RAF style equivalent.

 

A general order would therefore be more likely to apply to other ranks.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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pierssc

Peter sets out my understanding too.

 

I might just mention though that though my grandfather was commissioned in the Gordon Highlanders all the RFC photos of him show him wearing the "maternity jacket".  Family lore has it that this was because it clearly marked him out as a flyer.  He also seems to have been an early adopter of the blue RAF uniform, probably for the same reason.  

 

In some fictional accounts I have read, regimental dress was thought to have more cachet as it suggested the wearer might have had experience in the trenches.  Who knows?  There's probably something in it.  It really sounds a matter of personal choice.

 

A group photo of the Aircraft Acceptance Park at Renfrew in November 1918 shows a very mixed lot of uniforms.

Edited by pierssc

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PRC
23 minutes ago, pierssc said:

I might just mention though that though my grandfather was commissioned in the Gordon Highlanders all the RFC photos of him show him wearing the "maternity jacket".  Family lore has it that this was because it clearly marked him out as a flyer.  He also seems to have been an early adopter of the blue RAF uniform, probably for the same reason.

 

Not saying it applied to your grandfather but it could also be seen as an ostentatious display of wealth and status - it says to the world that here is a man who could afford to ditch a complete set of expensive clothes and replace them instantly with a new design. And of course some individuals with aspirations may have tried to follow suit even if it meant getting into debt. Others may simply have had the choice thrust on them by the loss of a uniform. It would also have worked both ways in the mess. An officer who retained their regimental design out of sentimental attachment and pride may have been treated as the poor cousin.

 

I have to admit most of my knowledge in this area comes from transcribing newspaper reports of court cases in which tailors were being sued over the quality of the equipment provided - swords and personal side arms seemed to be a particular issue. In many cases this seemed to be a counter-sue after the military outfitter took the officer to court for not paying the bill in full.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Andrew Upton
2 hours ago, PRC said:

...My understanding is that the uniform problem persisted with the creation of the RAF - they couldn't insist on officers ditching their existing uniforms wholesale and buying a new one. The compromise was that as parts wore out or were lost they would be replaced with the RAF style equivalent...

 

Indeed. I have been researching this the last few years, and posted something on Facebook only the other day. Bit of a copy and pasted job below:

 

"...the first blue RAF uniform was in early 1918, not 1919. Flight Magazine published details of it in March 1918 in the run up to the official formation of the RAF in April the same year, and on early April 4th the same year they published the following details on both the blue and khaki uniforms:

 

'UNIFORM OF THE ROYAL AIR FORCE.

 

SUPPLEMENTING the particulars given in our issue of two weeks ago, we are now able to give in full the regulations regarding the uniform of the Royal Air Force. They are as under :-

 

Khaki will be worn as service dress for the period of the war, after which uniform of the same pattern, but of light blue cloth, will be substiuted as soon as possible. The blue uniform may be worn by officers during the war as mess kit. The new uniform will not be made compulsory until sufficient time has elapsed for existing uniforms of the R.N.A.S. and R.F.C. to be worn out, unless an allowance is made to officers, when they will be expected to get khaki uniform as soon as possible. Further instructions on the latter point will be issued later.

 

Uniform in khaki and blue may be seen in Room 751, 3rd Floor, North Block, Cecil Chambers, Air Ministry.' "

 

It then goes on to say:

 

"Officers transferring from the R.N.A.S., and the R.F.C. will, on supplying themselves with Air Force uniform, wear rank distinction corresponding to that which hold in their present service, whether their present rank is permanent or temporary."

 

Edited by Andrew Upton

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pierssc
1 hour ago, PRC said:

 

Not saying it applied to your grandfather but it could also be seen as an ostentatious display of wealth and status

 

 

Well it certainly wasn't in his case!   More like an ostentatious display of being a flyer.  But I take your point.  

 

I think he would have been an off-the-peg man!

 

 

Edited by pierssc

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charlie962
13 hours ago, Madmeg said:

The links don;t seem to take me anywhere- they just go back to my post

Only FindmyPast have copied the RAF Officers Service Files I think. So you need a sub or local library. The links worked when I checked a moment ago ? Perhaps someone else would kindly verify please ,

 

The 4 record that I selected seemed to me to be the correct people due to 'unfit' status Sept/Oct 1917. The others that you quoted had no obvious fit.

 

charlie

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Madmeg
8 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Only FindmyPast have copied the RAF Officers Service Files I think. So you need a sub or local library. The links worked when I checked a moment ago ? Perhaps someone else would kindly verify please ,

 

The 4 record that I selected seemed to me to be the correct people due to 'unfit' status Sept/Oct 1917. The others that you quoted had no obvious fit.

 

charlie

Hi Charlie,

Could you give the numbers or something to identify the records? then I could write them down and track them down next time I'm at the library. I can;t access my stuff links etc on a library connection, if I log in to my account it won;t show me the files and the library edition doesn;t always seem to find things under the same search criteria as I use at home! (Ancestry is shocking for it).

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charlie962
1 minute ago, Madmeg said:

Could you give the numbers or something to identify the records?

Will oblige shortly. charlie

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alf mcm

I think your Matron may be Mabel Adeline Jobson. She was born in Leicester in about 1883. In 1911 she was a School Nurse, and in 1914 trained as a Masseuse. After she left the RFC Hospital she trained as a Midwife. She then emigrated to New Zealand and married Ernest Napier.

I am not sure if she is the person on the Red Cross record, the age given is wrong {she could have been economical with the truth}, but I can't find any other M.A. Jobson who is a trained nurse {T.N. on the record card}.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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PRC
1 hour ago, pierssc said:

I think he would have been an off-the-peg man!

 

Here's your basic price list :-)

 

(courtesy of The Times Digitial Vault, page 4 of the edition of the 11th April 1918).

The Times 11th April 1918 page 4 Advert Gamages Military Outfitters sourced The Times Digital Vault.png

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charlie962
4 hours ago, PRC said:

My understanding is that the uniform problem persisted with the creation of the RAF

There was this excellent photo (see post 7) from 1920 showing the 'persistance' .

Charlie

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Madmeg
7 hours ago, alf mcm said:

I think your Matron may be Mabel Adeline Jobson. She was born in Leicester in about 1883. In 1911 she was a School Nurse, and in 1914 trained as a Masseuse. After she left the RFC Hospital she trained as a Midwife. She then emigrated to New Zealand and married Ernest Napier.

I am not sure if she is the person on the Red Cross record, the age given is wrong {she could have been economical with the truth}, but I can't find any other M.A. Jobson who is a trained nurse {T.N. on the record card}.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

Hi Alf

Nice find, I wasn't happy with the Re cCross one either, but I also have Mabel Amelia b Forfar 1889 working at a childrens Hospital in 1911 and 1901 with GM in forfar (father may be a retired surgeon).

So Mabel Amelia of Forfar or Mabel Adeline if Leicester?

Mabel Adeline s a better age to be a matron certainly.

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charlie962
alf mcm

Mabel Amelia appears to be the person on the Red Cross card.

The British Journal of Nursing has the following;-

Note of training at Royal Albert Edward Infirmary, Wigan is in B.J.N. 9th May 1903. {This was for Miss M. Jobson, so may not be the correct person}.

Mabel Adeline's appointment as School Nurse is in B.J.N. of 24th December 1910.

B.J.N. of 19th February 1916 notes that Sister M.A. Jobson was going abroad to serve with Lady Dudley’s Hospital in Mentone.

Regards,

Alf

 

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Madmeg
3 hours ago, alf mcm said:

Mabel Amelia appears to be the person on the Red Cross card.

The British Journal of Nursing has the following;-

Note of training at Royal Albert Edward Infirmary, Wigan is in B.J.N. 9th May 1903. {This was for Miss M. Jobson, so may not be the correct person}.

 

Mabel Adeline's appointment as School Nurse is in B.J.N. of 24th December 1910.

 

B.J.N. of 19th February 1916 notes that Sister M.A. Jobson was going abroad to serve with Lady Dudley’s Hospital in Mentone.

 

Regards,

Alf

 

Mentone appears to be in Australia. Menton is in the French Riviera but sometimes spelled Mentone.

 A Lady Dudley who died in 1920 set up a scheme to sent Australian Doctors and nurses to the front.St Wimereux and St Nazaire, appears to have been staffed by Australians, list of whom here...https://sites.google.com/site/archoevidence/home/ww1australianwomen/australian-voluntary-hospital

And then there is the Auxillary hospital in Menton/e France which was apparently started by the English residents.

And THEN there is the other Lady Countess) Dudley who died in 1929 who served with the Red Cross during the Boer war and set up the Mayfair Convalescet Home in England which she worked in. 

ARGH!!!

1918 - Midwives Board- Maternity Nursing Association - M A Jobson

 

 

Edited by Madmeg

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Madmeg

As my list of names at top is getting a bit unwieldy I have made a small spread sheet with details in shortened form- I will keep adding to the main list as I find stuff and leave it up there but here is the sheet.

 

As you can see (so far) the earliest possible date when all these men cold have been together is the 17th August 1917 ( I thought I had found one on the 29th August but my PC had a wee crashette (!!!) so I may have lost some data <grr>)

Note actual DoB for Stanley Philip Angus Bousfield! must have lied about his age to join up- he's only 18. They all look so much older than they were- except my GF he looks older :-D

 

.

Surname Initials Name DoB PoB Father Mother Joined up Initial Regt Date joined RFC Date injured (1917 only) Date fit for duty Rank at photo DoD
BEER FH Frederick Horace 29/3/1894 Hackney?               2nd Lt 1979 SOM
BIRKIN HRS Henry Ralph Stanley 1896 Notts Thomas   Oct-16 7th Sherwood F 3/07/1917 1/08/1917   2nd Lt  
BOUSFIELD SPA Stanley PhilIp Angus 1/8/1895 Actual 1899   Edwin VB Florence   3rd Seaforth Highlanders 3/04/1917 21/05/1917   Lt  
CRAIG GE George Eric Gwynne 2/5/1892                 Lt  
CREERY KA Kenneth Andrew 1894 Canada Andrew Annie     22/11/1915 6/07/1917   Lt  
DAVIES G                     Capt  
FOSTER CEW Charles Edward William 1896 Australia     Aug-14 1st Australian Field Artillery 16/05/1916 22/01/1917   Capt  
JAMES B Bert             3/06/1916 18/07/1917   Capt  
LANCASTER AH Andrew Hinchcliffe 1895   John Mary           2nd LT  
MAHONEY HS Herbert Sidney 24/11/1890             7/08/1917   2nd Lt  
MATHEWS EVD Edward Vivanti Dewar 11/4/1894 Wandsworth Ebeneezer MATTHEWS Louisa Beatrice     1/08/1916 25/07/1917   Lt 1949
PEARSON WJ William James 1885 Hamilton, New Zealand William James Abigail LOVETT Sep-14 DoLOY 2/01/1917 10/02/1917   2nd Lt 1936 CHS
St GEORGE LW Leonard Warner 1876 Masterton, New Zealand Leonard Shaw Mary Emily 1/09/1916         2nd Lt  
STOCKS CH                     Capt  
STROUD H Henry           29/11/1916         2nd Lt  
TOWLER PE Percy Edward         26/11/1915 HAC 23/05/1917 25/06/1917   2nd Lt  
WILLIAMS AB                     2nd Lt  
WINKLEY EC Ernest Claude 2/11/1896 Scarborough EW(Ernest William) Mary Saner   11th E Surrey 23/03/1916 17/08/1917   Capt 1958 DEV

 

Edited by Madmeg

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PRC

Hopefully filling in some of the gaps.

 

Frederick Horace Beer

 

GRO Birth Index Hackney District Q2 1895 – late registration if born 29/03/1894

1901 Census Frederick H, aged 6, born Clapton, London, parents Fred, a Coach Painter & Lilian

1911 Census Frederick Horace, aged 16, born Clapton, London, Insurance Clerk “Student”, parents Fred & Lilian Sarah living 8 Lynmouth Road, Reading.

MiC 2nd Air Mechanic 553 Royal Flying Corps then Second Lieutenant. In France from 12.8.14. Remarks note Commissioned 11.3.17. Noted that his 1914 Star was issued with the rank of Corporal.

Death Register shows DoB of 29th March 1895. You had 42 days to register a birth so this date of birth and the period of registration are compatible.

1979 Probate Calendar shows died at home in Wanstrow, Shepton Mallet, Somerset on the 11th April 1979.

 

Henry Ralph Stanley Birkin

 

GRO Birth Index Basford District of Nottinghamshire Q3 1896.(Original document shows Henry Palph S. Birkin)

1901 Census Henry R, aged 4, born Nottingham. Only parent father Thomas S, a Lace Manufacturer is shown, (plus a younger daughter and 7 live in servants).

1911 Census Henry Ralph Stanley, 14, born Nottingham. Parents Thomas Stanley, a Lace Curtain Manufacturer, and Margaret Diana living at Aspley Hall, Nottingham.

Wikipedia “Birkin died at Countess Carnavon Nursing Home in London 22 June 1933, aged thirty-six”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Birkin

1933 Probate Calendar shows Sir Henry Ralph Stanley Birkin, baronet, of Whites Club, St James Street, Westminster, died 22 July 1933 at 7 Portland Place, St Marylebone, Middlesex.

 

Stanley Philip Angus Bousfield

 

GRO Birth Index Croydon District of Surrey Q3 1899.

1901 Census Stanley P.A, , aged 1, born Norwood, Surrey. Parents Edwin V B, Surveyor, and Florence.

1911 Census Stanley Philip Angus, 14, born South Norwood. Head of the household is Florence, a married woman, living at 10 Lincoln Road, South Norwood.

MiC shows first Theatre of War was Egypt on the 30th June 1916.

A re-union of the School of Special Flying at Gosport which took place in 1938 listed an S F. Bousfield among the attendees. There is a picture in Flight Magazine, but there are fewer people in the picture than the number shown in the attendee list and only a couple are named.

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1938/1938 - 2034.html?search=Bousfield

Death of a Stanley P A Bousfield aged 62 was registered in the Marylebone District of London in Q4 1961. 1963 Probate Calendar has a Stanley Bousfield and records that he died on the 22nd October 1961 at 20 Devonshire Place, St Marylebone. His home address was 63 Upper Berkeley Street, St Marylebone.

 

George Eric Gwynne Craig.

 

Canadian service records show born County Donegal 02/05/1891, father John Craig. Attested 01/05/1915 in the 39th Battalion, Canadian Expeditionary Force.

Seconded to RFC 4-1-17 as an Observer, ended secondment 17-3-19, (one document say 1-4-19 ). Fathers address on attesting was Fern View, Killygordon, County Donegal. (On his medical history George is shown as born “Fern Viro”, Killygordon).

In the medical notes reported London W.C Hospital 2-7-17 Injury accident aeroplane – accident at Grantham.

12.10.17 RFC Hospital Bryanston Square W. London. Contusion Back.

There is an accident report for the incident at Spittlegate aerodrome but it is difficult to read.

Lieut H H James was the pilot of Avro 90 R.9542 and was slightly injured. Lt G.E.G Craig, (pupil - seriously injured) and Lt G(?).A.F Henderson (pilot & instructor) were in B.E.2E 3651 – fatally injured. Both planes were practicing landing, the B.E.2c more vertically. They collided and fell out of control from the height of about 100 feet. The day was clear with no cloud below 3,000 feet and a N.E. ground wind of about 30mph. Crash took place about 7.10 p.m. (although the A.W.90 is shown as taking off 7.20 p.m). The court decided that the deceased had failed to see the A.W.90 and consequently flew across him.

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=123317

On the 1911 Census of Ireland there is a 19 year George Eric Craig, born Donegal recorded as a student at Trinity College, Dublin.

A 21 year old Irish Law Student G E G Craig was aboard the S S Scandinavian when she docked at Quebec in October 1912. He was travelling on business, (Slight discrepancy – the Service record was for a man who was a Civil Engineer).

 

There is a profile for him on that in the website www.geni.com that needs to be treated with caution – it has him born May 2nd 1890 at Queentown, South Africa.

However a transcribed letter from his wife Anne, written in 1992, is included which indicates this is the right man.

"Educated at Portora Royal School, in Enniskillen, Ireland, and upon matriculation, spent 3 years at Trinity College, Dublin University, studying Arts and Engineering. Left for Canada to join Canadian Pacific Railway Company on construction work at Belleville and Trenton, Ontario.

At outbreak of WWI joined 39th Battalion, CEF, as 1st Lieutenant, went overseas with 38th Btn in France and seconded to Royal Flying Corps in France. Took Observer's course in France and Pilot's course at Reading, England. Rank Captain, Acting Major, Service Medals.

From 1919-1922 was part owner of 700 acre ranch near Grande Prairie, raising cattle and horses for commerical and breeding purposes. Finally gave up the struggle in 1922.

From 1922-1924 locating and staking group claims for Imperial Oil at Fort Norman, NWT.

From 1924-1925 Assistant Manager at Blue Diamond Coal Mine, Brule, Alberta.

1925-27 operated own trading outfit on the McKenzie River from Fort Simpson to Point Separation on the delta of the McKenzie. Made many trips to its tributaries and had tremendous knowledge of the McKenzie River area. Sold out in 1927 to become manager in the Arctic for the Northern Whaling and Trading Company, locating and establishing posts in the Western Arctic.

He then spent a year in Ireland and returning to Canada, getting married to me, and in business. At outbreak of war tried desperately to get back into action but was pronounced too old. However, was sent to Edmonton as Stores Supervisor for Northern Transportation Company, then laid out the Bartow Lighting System on Edmonton Airport, then became manager of Calgary Municipal Airport."

His immediate family in the profile are son of John Frederick Craig and Gertrude Blanche Isabel Craig (Bate)

He died February 29, 1968 (77), Bahia San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico

https://www.geni.com/people/George-Craig/6000000017259642428

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Edited by PRC
Typo

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DavidOwen

F H Beer's record here has him "unfit for flying for 3 months" starting   29/8/17 again for 3 months on  2/10/17 and again for 2 months "Norwich" on 14/11/17. No reason I can see given via the watermark or the clearer FMP version BTW his DoB is variously given as 1890 - 1895 on the first page and 1894 on a later one.

 

 

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DavidOwen

Leonard Warner St George recorded as unfit on 20/9/17 for 3 months, subsequently made permanent for Light Duties on 2/11/17 returning to duty as a Gunnery Officer.

FMP link TNA link

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DavidOwen

Charles Howe Stocks born   26th August 1890. Declare  unfit for 6 weeks + 3 weeks (LD?) on 4/9/17 and again for 1 month on 6/10/17 declared fit for GS in "a warm climate e.g. Egypt"  on 1/11/17. FMP link TNA record

 

Henry Clifford Stroud - no 1917 information found although his officer papers are at Kew https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1115829

However, have found a medical record for a 2/Lieutenant H Stroud RFC for Gun Shot Wound in the Back discharged to "RFC B"  dated 6/9/17 FMP link Record is from Queen Alexandra's Hospital, Millbank. If he was the same officer, Henry Clifford Stroud was killed on 7th March 1918.

 

 

 

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DavidOwen

A B Williams (born 1897) suffered a concussion and was discharged from Queen Alexandra's Hospital Millbank  to  "RFC E" on 15/8/17 FMP link

I believe him to be Archibald Boniface Llewelyn-Williams Medical Board declared him unfit for duty for 2 months on 25/9/17.again on 24/10/17 and 30/11/17.Declared fit on 4/3/18 (cannot quite read the conditions). He was injured again a flying accident on 5/12/18. FMP link TNA here

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