9th Battalion, Gloucestershire Regiment

[Tom-cruise]

Hello, my paternal grandfather was in the 9th battalion The Gloucester Regiment, he was born in 1898. Before I investigated I always believed young men had to be 18 to enlist in the British army, this was not so when my grandfather enlisted, he enlisted in September 1914 which made him 16.

The war act in 1916 changed enlistment ages, from then on young men enlisting had to be 18 years old.

 

My mother gave me my grandfathers WW1 medals to keep, the victory medal, and King George medal, my grandfather was not given a star medal as he enlisted later after war broke out.

 

From Wikipedia I found the 9th battalion did not engage the enemy, every other battalion was mentioned, but not the 9th, I would appreciate any information to what the 9th battalion was used for, and the Greek campaign? 

 

My grandfathers army number, rank and name will be given on request.

 

From a group photo of the 9th battalion I identified my grandfather as my elder brother is identical in facial features. 

[Michelle Young]

Hello Tom and welcome. I've split this into a new topic. In order for members to help you, we need as much information as possible please. I'd also recommend looking at the Long Long Trail as advised in this sub forum header for more information about how to research Soldiers.

Michelle 

[Tom-cruise]

Hello and thank you Michelle, My grandfathers name was Alfred H Critchley, his service number was 52846 rank private. Birthday 5th September 1898

After the war my grandfather worked at “Fielding and Platts” engineering company in Gloucester city, my elder brother was given my grandfathers gold wrist watch he received on his retirement at 65.

I was 17 when my grandfather died in 1976 I remember  him well,, a tall man, a gentle man of few words, very well liked by his ex work colleagues.

Edited 9 August , 2019 by Tom-cruise

[Tom-cruise]

Like every little boy the world over I asked my grandfather the immortal words, I must have been 7-8 years old  “how many Germans did you kill granddad?”I asked. I remember him to this day, he did not answer but just called my grandmother in to the living room to get rid of me.

I bring this to attention as I recall my grandfather rubbing his finger over and over the victory medal, as it’s owner I can see where he wore one side away and is polished clean.

 

[charlie962]

The LongLongTrail (see top left of screen for link) tells us the following about the 9th Gloucesters:

9th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Bristol in September 1914 as part of K3 and came under command of 78th Brigade in 26th Division. Moved to Codford St Mary but by November 1914 was in billets in Cheltenham. Moved to Longbridge Deverill in April 1915.
Landed in France 21 September 1915.
Moved to Salonika in November 1915.
4 July 1918 : left Division and returned to France.
21 July 1918 : attached to 198th Brigade in 66th (2nd East Lancashire) Division.
22 September 1918 : became Pioneer Battalion to same Division.

 

Charlie

[Dave66]

Hello and welcome,

 

His medal roll also states that he served with the 1/5 Gloucesters.

link is here, and an extract below...https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=BKY13&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=5119&gsfn=Alfred&gsln=Critchley&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&cp=11&qh=L%2BWIuwYxHHyOvvcgUEwH3Q%3D%3D&new=1&rank=1&uidh=l37&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=4&h=4751322&recoff=&ml_rpos=5

 

Dave.

Edited 9 August , 2019 by Dave66

[Tom-cruise]

52 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

The LongLongTrail (see top left of screen for link) tells us the following about the 9th Gloucesters:

9th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Bristol in September 1914 as part of K3 and came under command of 78th Brigade in 26th Division. Moved to Codford St Mary but by November 1914 was in billets in Cheltenham. Moved to Longbridge Deverill in April 1915.
Landed in France 21 September 1915.
Moved to Salonika in November 1915.
4 July 1918 : left Division and returned to France.
21 July 1918 : attached to 198th Brigade in 66th (2nd East Lancashire) Division.
22 September 1918 : became Pioneer Battalion to same Division.

 

Charlie

 

Thank you Charlie 962 

[Tom-cruise]

34 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

Hello and welcome,

 

His medal roll also states that he served with the 1/5 Gloucesters.

link is here, and an extract below...https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=BKY13&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=5119&gsfn=Alfred&gsln=Critchley&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&cp=11&qh=L%2BWIuwYxHHyOvvcgUEwH3Q%3D%3D&new=1&rank=1&uidh=l37&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=4&h=4751322&recoff=&ml_rpos=5

 

Dave.

Thank you Dave.

i wondered when I came across this document list what the 1/5th meant.

As British troops were stationed in Greece engaging Bulgarian forces wouldn’t the Greeks have produced a medal in acknowledgment of service? 

[kenf48]

2 hours ago, Tom-cruise said:

Hello, my paternal grandfather was in the 9th battalion The Gloucester Regiment, he was born in 1898. Before I investigated I always believed young men had to be 18 to enlist in the British army, this was not so when my grandfather enlisted, he enlisted in September 1914 which made him 16.

 

 

Pte 52846 Critchley may have attempted to enlist in 1914, but it seems unlikely.  He would have been ‘deemed to have enlisted’ on attaining the age of eighteen, though he may not have been mobilised until later, especially if he was a skilled tradesman.  Near number sampling shows he was posted to the Gloucestershire Regiment around June 1918.  He would have lost any occupational exemption following the losses of March 1918.

 

We don’t know for certain when he joined the BEF but twelve weeks training would mean towards the end of August 1918.  He did not serve in Salonika.  

It’s unclear when he was posted to the 1/5 Bn.  They were in Italy until September 1918, however 52835 Phipps, who was probably in the same draft as Critchley died while serving with the 1/5 Bn on the 6th November 1918.  Although the Rolls usually list units in chronological order there are anomalies and at least one man in the 528** series was posted from the 5th Bn to the 9th in March 1919 when they became part of the Army of Occupation.

 

As suggested by Michelle it’s recommended you have a look at the Long Long Trail on researching a soldier.

 

Ken

 

[Tom-cruise]

13 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 

Pte 52846 Critchley may have attempted to enlist in 1914, but it seems unlikely.  He would have been ‘deemed to have enlisted’ on attaining the age of eighteen, though he may not have been mobilised until later, especially if he was a skilled tradesman.  Near number sampling shows he was posted to the Gloucestershire Regiment around June 1918.  He would have lost any occupational exemption following the losses of March 1918.

 

We don’t know for certain when he joined the BEF but twelve weeks training would mean towards the end of August 1918.  He did not serve in Salonika.  

It’s unclear when he was posted to the 1/5 Bn.  They were in Italy until September 1918, however 52835 Phipps, who was probably in the same draft as Critchley died while serving with the 1/5 Bn on the 6th November 1918.  Although the Rolls usually list units in chronological order there are anomalies and at least one man in the 528** series was posted from the 5th Bn to the 9th in March 1919 when they became part of the Army of Occupation.

 

As suggested by Michelle it’s recommended you have a look at the Long Long Trail on researching a soldier.

 

Ken

 

 

[Tom-cruise]

Hi Kenf48, as you see in the photo above it’s a picture of the Gloucesters 9th battalion, on the picture clearly it is written 1915.

my grandfather can be see quite clearly 2nd person kneeling down from the right.

As stated I believe he enlisted i. September 1914 and was part of the 9th battalion 

[ss002d6252]

Looking at service numbers shows us

 

#52841 was issued June 1918
#52843 was issued July 1918

 

So, whatever happened, #52846 was not issued as a service number until July 1918. If he had earlier service it would have to be under a completely different number.

 

Craig

[ss002d6252]

1 hour ago, Tom-cruise said:

 

Any chance of a better quality copy of the picture, minor details can help date things but at the moment those details can't be seen.

 

 

1 hour ago, Tom-cruise said:

Hi Kenf48, as you see in the photo above it’s a picture of the Gloucesters 9th battalion, on the picture clearly it is written 1915.

my grandfather can be see quite clearly 2nd person kneeling down from the right.

As stated I believe he enlisted i. September 1914 and was part of the 9th battalion 

 

Why do you believe it was September 1914 ?

Craig

[Tom-cruise]

I believe this photograph was taken in Cheltenham in 1915 

[Michelle Young]

3 hours ago, Tom-cruise said:

Hi Kenf48, as you see in the photo above it’s a picture of the Gloucesters 9th battalion, on the picture clearly it is written 1915.

my grandfather can be see quite clearly 2nd person kneeling down from the right.

As stated I believe he enlisted i. September 1914 and was part of the 9th battalion 

It says 1595 on the photo not 1915.

 

Michelle

[Dave66]

With regard the photographer J W Hack, there’s an old thread here which may prove interesting.

 

Dave.

 

 

[ss002d6252]

That picture seems to have a a good few of the men wearing the Imperial Service badge - that was only worn by Territorial men. I would very much doubt that enough Territorial men would have ended up in a service battalion and still be wearing their IS badge (TF men couldn't be transferred to a service battalion in any case until the MSA 1916 came in to force).

Craig

[Tom-cruise]

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

That picture seems to have a a good few of the men wearing the Imperial Service badge - that was only worn by Territorial men. I would very much doubt that enough Territorial men would have ended up in a service battalion and still be wearing their IS badge (TF men couldn't be transferred to a service battalion in any case until the MSA 1916 came in to force).

Craig

 

This is interesting.

 

   9th (Service) Battalion, Gloucestershire Regiment was raised at Bristol in September 1914 as part of Kitchener's Third New Army and joined 78th Brigade, 26th Division. They trained at Codford St Mary, spending the winter in billets in Cheltenham. In April 1915 they moved to Longbridge Deverill for final training and proceeded to France on the 21st of September. They moved to Salonika travelling via Marseilles in November 1915. On the 26th of December they moved from Lembet to Happy Valley Camp. In 1916 hey were in action in the Battle of Horseshoe Hill in 1917 the fought in the First and Second Battles of Doiran. In mid 1918 some units of the Division moved back to France including the 9th Gloucesters who left the division on the 4th of July. On the 21st of July they joined 198th Brigade, 66th (2nd East Lancashire) Division and became a Pioneer Battalion on the 22nd of September. They returned to action in October in The Battle of Cambrai and The Pursuit to the Selle. They fought in The Battle of the Selle and on the 21st of October the Division was withdrawn for rest moving to the Serain area. On the 2nd of November they advanced through Le Cateau engaging in sharp fighting. On the 9th of November a number of units of the Division were selected to advance through Belgium to occupy the Rhone Bridgeheads and were placed under command of Bethell's Force. At the Armistice the advanced units of this Force were on the line of Pont de Republique through Grandrieu to Montbliart. They advanced into Germany and remained there until demobilised. 
 

 

 

In the group photo it can be clearly seen that it was taken In Cheltenham.

Edited 10 August , 2019 by Tom-cruise

[ss002d6252]

 

Quote

In the group photo it can be clearly seen that it was taken In Cheltenham.

The photographer was based in Cheltenham but that, by itself, does not mean the photograph was taken there and not somewhere in the surrounding area.

 

Going to back to an earlier question regarding enlistment - "Why do you believe it was September 1914 ?" Is it simply drawing from a battalion that you were aware was in Cheltenham at the time you believe the picture was taken in Cheltenham ?

Craig

[kenf48]

While the allocation of regimental numbers is not an exact science, there is sufficient evidence to show Pte Alfred Critchley was allocated his Goucestershire Regiment number 52846 in June 1918.  If he served in a TF Battalion we would expect to see a six digit number issued in March 1917, prior to that he would have had a four digit number which if he had served at home details would have been lost.  We know from the medal rolls he did not serve overeseas in a theatre of war with any other number and, presumably that is the number inscribed on his medals.

 

If he had enlisted in September 1914 he would have been allocated a number in the 12***/13*** series, e.g.:-

12790 was issued to the 9th Bn at Bristol on 12th September 1914
13087 was issued to the 9th Bn at Cheltenham on the 4th September 1914
13080 was issued to the 9th Bn in Bristol on the 4th September

 

As to the photograph it was clearly taken in Cheltenham and perhaps in 1915, but judging from the lack of foliage on the trees during the winter.  The Hack thread shows he was killed in 1918, three years after joining the colours so he ceased to be active as a photgrapher after that date. 

 

We have yet to account for the TF men in the photograph, and certainly can't see if the man highlighted was wearing an IS badge.  However we know it was possible to enlist in the TF aged seventeen for home service, we also know they were pretty lax about age requirements, but there is no evidence Pte Critchley did serve continuously from September 1914 in the TF.

 

The LLT shows a number of Battalions of the Gloucestershire Regiment were billetted in Cheltenham, including the reserve battalions in the winter of 1916 - 1917 (by which time Pte Hack was in the Army) but that might explain the IS badges as the Reserve Battalions were formed around the 3rd Line TF Battalions.

 

Ken

 

[chaz]

for information

my great Uncles

12173 J E Gleed  8th Glos

12178 A Gleed   8th Glos

my grandfather

18982 W Gleed  1st Glos

same village

12174 P S Goodfield 8thGlos

[Tom-cruise]

16 hours ago, kenf48 said:

While the allocation of regimental numbers is not an exact science, there is sufficient evidence to show Pte Alfred Critchley was allocated his Goucestershire Regiment number 52846 in June 1918.  If he served in a TF Battalion we would expect to see a six digit number issued in March 1917, prior to that he would have had a four digit number which if he had served at home details would have been lost.  We know from the medal rolls he did not serve overeseas in a theatre of war with any other number and, presumably that is the number inscribed on his medals.

 

If he had enlisted in September 1914 he would have been allocated a number in the 12***/13*** series, e.g.:-

12790 was issued to the 9th Bn at Bristol on 12th September 1914
13087 was issued to the 9th Bn at Cheltenham on the 4th September 1914
13080 was issued to the 9th Bn in Bristol on the 4th September

 

As to the photograph it was clearly taken in Cheltenham and perhaps in 1915, but judging from the lack of foliage on the trees during the winter.  The Hack thread shows he was killed in 1918, three years after joining the colours so he ceased to be active as a photgrapher after that date. 

 

We have yet to account for the TF men in the photograph, and certainly can't see if the man highlighted was wearing an IS badge.  However we know it was possible to enlist in the TF aged seventeen for home service, we also know they were pretty lax about age requirements, but there is no evidence Pte Critchley did serve continuously from September 1914 in the TF.

 

The LLT shows a number of Battalions of the Gloucestershire Regiment were billetted in Cheltenham, including the reserve battalions in the winter of 1916 - 1917 (by which time Pte Hack was in the Army) but that might explain the IS badges as the Reserve Battalions were formed around the 3rd Line TF Battalions.

 

Ken

 

This is exactly what information I needed Ken, from what you have pointed out it was wishful thinking of me to think My grandfather had joined up at 16 and saw service in a far away land. This needs more investigation to what service he actually saw.

Thank you for your help in clearing this up.

(Yes his service number is on his 2 medals) 

Edited 11 August , 2019 by Tom-cruise

[dink999]

With the J W Hack photographer and a Cheltenham connection I may be able to help with the date and location of the photograph.

 

The attached image from the Cheltenham Chronicle & Glos Graphic dated 24 Oct 1914 clearly shows the 5th Glosters at Chelmsford, 8 photos similar to the one posted by Tom-cruise. They all have the photographers details in the left hand bottom corner plus random 3 & 4 figure numbers like the 1595 number on the image in post 14.

 

*Just found a second picture spread from Nov 7 1914

 

I will have a look through the Oct, Nov 1915 editions to see if anything else looks promising but these Oct 1914 images look like a good bet to me.

 

Dave

 

Edited 11 August , 2019 by dink999
extra image found

[kenf48]

1 hour ago, dink999 said:

will have a look through the Oct, Nov 1915 editions to see if anything else looks promising but these Oct 1914 images look like a good bet to me.

 

I'd agree, the 5th Gloucesters would account for the Imperial Service Badges on the original photograph and the time frame is right.  They do seem rather proud of their digging;-)

 

Ken

[Tom-cruise]

2 hours ago, dink999 said:

With the J W Hack photographer and a Cheltenham connection I may be able to help with the date and location of the photograph.

 

The attached image from the Cheltenham Chronicle & Glos Graphic dated 24 Oct 1914 clearly shows the 5th Glosters at Chelmsford, 8 photos similar to the one posted by Tom-cruise. They all have the photographers details in the left hand bottom corner plus random 3 & 4 figure numbers like the 1595 number on the image in post 14.

 

*Just found a second picture spread from Nov 7 1914

 

I will have a look through the Oct, Nov 1915 editions to see if anything else looks promising but these Oct 1914 images look like a good bet to me.

 

Dave

 

So this photo I posted was took in 1914.