Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

Lawlessx

*HELP* Jack ernest moore - 1st lieutenant machine gun Corps

Recommended Posts

IPT
11 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

Seems George S Wind was the driver of an East Kent Bus when it had a small mishap in October 1924. His address given then is Sandown, Haslemere Road, Beltinge, Herne Bay. No one was seriously hurt in the incident.

image.png

 

 

Yes, and wasn’t he pinched in 1930 for dangerous driving?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DavidOwen

There is also a long description of G S Wind being in court on a charge of dangerous driving whilst driving an East Kent Bus in December 1930 - the case was dismissed. I am afraid the copying of the article due to its length has defeated me but it can be found on FMP here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HolymoleyRE
1 hour ago, IPT said:

Alberta C Armitage

Without wanting to go too deep, and perhaps adding nothing more than further confirming the rogueish'ness of GSW.  She seems to go by the name Coralie A Wind (nee Armitage). Coralie Wind pops up twice in the papers for the wrong reasons, first 1931 living at 69 Windmill Lane, Greenford, Ealing and 1940 as a 38 year old Housewife, Gloucester Street, Pimlico for Soliciting, she remarries in 1954. A few different electoral role entries in the 1940s (one with a Patricia M(ay) Wind, who pops up on the 1939 Register born in December 1925).

 

Edited by HolymoleyRE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IPT
1 hour ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Without wanting to go too deep, and perhaps adding nothing more than further confirming the rogueish'ness of GSW.  She seems to go by the name Coralie A Wind (nee Armitage). Coralie Wind pops up twice in the papers for the wrong reasons, first 1931 living at 69 Windmill Lane, Greenford, Ealing and 1940 as a 38 year old Housewife, Gloucester Street, Pimlico for Soliciting, she remarries in 1954. A few different electoral role entries in the 1940s (one with a Patricia M(ay) Wind, who pops up on the 1939 Register born in December 1925).

 

 

Oh, nice find. He really was a gent, wasn't he?

 

The birth date on her death certificate, 28/4/1902, show that she was plain Alberta Armitage on her birth and christening records.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lawlessx
On 12/08/2019 at 00:00, PRC said:

 

One possible next line of enquiry is if Emma Louisa Evans had a niece Ada Annie Evans.

 

If Emma Louisa Evans was 36 when she married on the October 18th, 1913, and 51 when she died on the 17/11/28, and was apparently single when she married, (her father is given as William Evans, an Iron Worker) then that gives you a date of birth (approximately) between the 18th November 1876 and the 18th October 1877.

 

Potential births that match that in the GRO quarterly index for England and Wales are.

Emma Louisa Evans, Q4 1876 West Bromwich District – mothers’ maiden name Smallman.

Emma Louisa Evans Q2 1877 Madeley District, Shropshire – mothers’ maiden name Duddell.

 

On the 1881 Census of England and Wales the 4 year old Emma Louisa Evans, born Dawley, Shropshire, was recorded living at Frame Lane, Dawley. The address fell within the Madelely Civil Registration District. Her father was William, a Puddler Forgeman.

On the same census the 4 year old Emma L. Evans, born West Bromwich, was recorded living at Union Street, West Bromwich. Her father was Henry, a Roller at an Iron Works.

 

So looks like the focus needs to be on the Dawley born woman. Or it would be except she and the rest of the family seems to disappear from the subsequent censuses. They were:-

Father William, 34, who was born Little Wenlock, Shropshire

Mother Mary, 33, was born Dawley

Brother William Henry(?), 8, was born Dawley

Sister Sarah Elizabeth, 7, was born Dawley

Brother Frederick Charles, 5, was born Dawley.

 

Just to close off the loop – a William Evans married a Mary Duddell in the Madeley District in Q2 of 1872. This is the only marriage I could identify in England and Wales for a male Evans to a female Duddell. The only children registered with the surname Evans, mothers maiden name Duddell were all in the Madeley District.

William Henry……Q1 1873

Sarah Elizabeth….Q1 1874

Frederick Charles..Q4 1875

Harriet…………….Q3 1881

Herbert James…..Q4 1884

 

The nearest thing to a match for Emma Louisa on the 1911 Census is an “Emily” Evans, aged 30 and a single woman born Doseley, Shropshire – the next village to the WNW of Little Dawley and W of Dawley. Emily was a live in Cook at the Boarding School at 20 Park Avenue, Harrogate.

 

Her brothers and sisters would have been old enough to be having children of their own by the 1890’s and so one of those children would either be old enough to have been the wife of Jack Ernest Moore or more likely the young single girl who was the biological mother of Ellen Christine.

 

Possibles to consider on the 1911 Census.

 

William Henry Evans. There is a 39 year old married man, born Horsehay, Shropshire, who was recorded as the head of the household at 23 Broad Street, Burslem, Staffordshire. He worked as a Iron Puddler. He lives there with his wife of 11 years Lillie, (aged 33, born Hamley, Staffordshire). The couple have had 6 children of which 5 were then still alive including daughters Lillie, (11), Mary, (8) and Elizabeth, (under 1). Horsehay is west of Dawley and Doseley.

 

Sarah Elizabeth Evans. There is an interesting household at 30 Grant Street, Burslem, Staffordshire. A 37 year old unmarried woman, born “Dozeley”, Shropshire, was housekeeper at this address to her widowed brother-in-law, John Mason, (29). John has has 3 children but only 1 was then alive. Also in the household is Johns son, the 3 year old John Reginald and his father-in-law the 65 year old widower William Evans, an Ironworker born Coalmoor, Shropshire. Coalmoor is north of Horsehay and north-west of Doseley & Little Dawley and west of Dawley, and east of Little Wenlock – the birthplace shown on the 1881 Census. There is a marriage of a John Mason to a Harriet Evans recorded in the Wolstanton District of Staffordshire in Q3 of 1903. The death of a 28 year old Harriet Mason was recorded in the Wolstanton District in Q1 of 1910 – that would tie in with the expected age of Harriet Evans.

 

Frederick Charles Evans. ??

Herbert James Evans. ??

 

Can’t exactly rule out this line of enquiry, but unless another viable candidate for the Emma Louisa Evans can be identified, or better candidates for the siblings of the Shropshire born one, then it’s beginning to seem unlikely.

 

Peter

 

Pat has mentioned her adopted family originally - I will get more information! 

 

Liam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sadbrewer
5 hours ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Without wanting to go too deep, and perhaps adding nothing more than further confirming the rogueish'ness of GSW.  She seems to go by the name Coralie A Wind (nee Armitage). Coralie Wind pops up twice in the papers for the wrong reasons, first 1931 living at 69 Windmill Lane, Greenford, Ealing and 1940 as a 38 year old Housewife, Gloucester Street, Pimlico for Soliciting, she remarries in 1954. A few different electoral role entries in the 1940s (one with a Patricia M(ay) Wind, who pops up on the 1939 Register born in December 1925).

 

 

Looks as though GS and Alberta/Coralie are birds of a feather, between 1919 and 1924 she has a rap sheet as long as his.

From The British Newspaper Archive. 

Screenshot_20190813-205815.jpg

Screenshot_20190813-205537.jpg

Screenshot_20190813-205116.jpg

Edited by sadbrewer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HolymoleyRE
27 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

Looks as though GS and Alberta/Coralie are birds of a feather, between 1919 and 1924 she has a rap sheet as long as his.

Interesting, seems her brother Ernest was killed with the 2nd Bedfords in June 1918.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lawlessx

Pat has traced her adopted grandmothers family back too Burslem, Stoke On Trent.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IPT
1 hour ago, Lawlessx said:

Pat has traced her adopted grandmothers family back too Burslem, Stoke On Trent.

 

 

That’s all well and good,Mr X,  but if Pat is descended from GSW, you may lose your car and your house. Good luck! ;-)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lawlessx
On 12/08/2019 at 00:00, PRC said:

 

One possible next line of enquiry is if Emma Louisa Evans had a niece Ada Annie Evans.

 

If Emma Louisa Evans was 36 when she married on the October 18th, 1913, and 51 when she died on the 17/11/28, and was apparently single when she married, (her father is given as William Evans, an Iron Worker) then that gives you a date of birth (approximately) between the 18th November 1876 and the 18th October 1877.

 

Potential births that match that in the GRO quarterly index for England and Wales are.

Emma Louisa Evans, Q4 1876 West Bromwich District – mothers’ maiden name Smallman.

Emma Louisa Evans Q2 1877 Madeley District, Shropshire – mothers’ maiden name Duddell.

 

On the 1881 Census of England and Wales the 4 year old Emma Louisa Evans, born Dawley, Shropshire, was recorded living at Frame Lane, Dawley. The address fell within the Madelely Civil Registration District. Her father was William, a Puddler Forgeman.

On the same census the 4 year old Emma L. Evans, born West Bromwich, was recorded living at Union Street, West Bromwich. Her father was Henry, a Roller at an Iron Works.

 

So looks like the focus needs to be on the Dawley born woman. Or it would be except she and the rest of the family seems to disappear from the subsequent censuses. They were:-

Father William, 34, who was born Little Wenlock, Shropshire

Mother Mary, 33, was born Dawley

Brother William Henry(?), 8, was born Dawley

Sister Sarah Elizabeth, 7, was born Dawley

Brother Frederick Charles, 5, was born Dawley.

 

Just to close off the loop – a William Evans married a Mary Duddell in the Madeley District in Q2 of 1872. This is the only marriage I could identify in England and Wales for a male Evans to a female Duddell. The only children registered with the surname Evans, mothers maiden name Duddell were all in the Madeley District.

William Henry……Q1 1873

Sarah Elizabeth….Q1 1874

Frederick Charles..Q4 1875

Harriet…………….Q3 1881

Herbert James…..Q4 1884

 

The nearest thing to a match for Emma Louisa on the 1911 Census is an “Emily” Evans, aged 30 and a single woman born Doseley, Shropshire – the next village to the WNW of Little Dawley and W of Dawley. Emily was a live in Cook at the Boarding School at 20 Park Avenue, Harrogate.

 

Her brothers and sisters would have been old enough to be having children of their own by the 1890’s and so one of those children would either be old enough to have been the wife of Jack Ernest Moore or more likely the young single girl who was the biological mother of Ellen Christine.

 

Possibles to consider on the 1911 Census.

 

William Henry Evans. There is a 39 year old married man, born Horsehay, Shropshire, who was recorded as the head of the household at 23 Broad Street, Burslem, Staffordshire. He worked as a Iron Puddler. He lives there with his wife of 11 years Lillie, (aged 33, born Hamley, Staffordshire). The couple have had 6 children of which 5 were then still alive including daughters Lillie, (11), Mary, (8) and Elizabeth, (under 1). Horsehay is west of Dawley and Doseley.

 

Sarah Elizabeth Evans. There is an interesting household at 30 Grant Street, Burslem, Staffordshire. A 37 year old unmarried woman, born “Dozeley”, Shropshire, was housekeeper at this address to her widowed brother-in-law, John Mason, (29). John has has 3 children but only 1 was then alive. Also in the household is Johns son, the 3 year old John Reginald and his father-in-law the 65 year old widower William Evans, an Ironworker born Coalmoor, Shropshire. Coalmoor is north of Horsehay and north-west of Doseley & Little Dawley and west of Dawley, and east of Little Wenlock – the birthplace shown on the 1881 Census. There is a marriage of a John Mason to a Harriet Evans recorded in the Wolstanton District of Staffordshire in Q3 of 1903. The death of a 28 year old Harriet Mason was recorded in the Wolstanton District in Q1 of 1910 – that would tie in with the expected age of Harriet Evans.

 

Frederick Charles Evans. ??

Herbert James Evans. ??

 

Can’t exactly rule out this line of enquiry, but unless another viable candidate for the Emma Louisa Evans can be identified, or better candidates for the siblings of the Shropshire born one, then it’s beginning to seem unlikely.

 

Peter

 

Pat has mentioned her adopted family originally - I will get more information! 

 

Liam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lawlessx

Mary (Evans?)Mountford& husband Leonard Mountford lived in Scotia Road, Burslem +a daughter.

 

From Pat.

 

She is intrigued by GSW ...

 

being in Theatre herself - shes finding this very dramatic and exciting!

 

Liam 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lawlessx
7 hours ago, IPT said:

That’s all well and good,Mr X,  but if Pat is descended from GSW, you may lose your car and your house. Good luck! ;-)

 

Ha ha ! She was an actress ...

 

She laughed that she may have got the trait of impersonating people from GSW.

 

Liam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PRC
1 hour ago, Lawlessx said:

Mary (Evans?)Mountford& husband Leonard Mountford lived in Scotia Road, Burslem +a daughter.

 

Any idea where this fits into the timeline - the only Leonard Mountfords with a Burslem connection on the 1911 Census were aged 13 & 11. There is a marriage of a Thomas Leonard Mountford to a Mary EATON in the right civil registration district, Wolstanton, in Q3 1912. The couple most likely had two male children and possibly a daughter, (registered in a neighbouring district, Foleshill). One of the boys is simply registered as a male, so either they couldn't make up their mind what to call him or sadly he died at or very shortly after birth.

 

Alternatively a Leonard Mountford married a Florence M. EVANS in the Stoke on Trent District, (absorbed parts of the Wolstanton District in 1922), in Q4 1925. Looks like possible children are a girl born 1927, (Hilda) and a boy born 1935, (Leonard).

 

Cheers,

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lawlessx

20190814_123707.jpg.9fa1fd678a42fc7dca701dd704826dc6.jpg

20190814_123651.jpg

Just now, Lawlessx said:

20190814_123707.jpg.9fa1fd678a42fc7dca701dd704826dc6.jpg

20190814_123651.jpg

Sorry these are sideways...

 

I'm on a mobile! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dgibson150

Can anyone read the Harrogate address? Something Park?

 

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DavidOwen

My guess is 1 James Park.

Now appears to be a retail site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DavidOwen

Update on George S Wind's Officer Service File - it has arrived - all 194 pages of it!

This may take me some time to go through (once it has downloaded...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IPT

Exciting!

 

Ive been gradually adding to what we know of him so far;

 

1895 - Born in Maidstone, Kent.

1901 census - Living in Maidstone with parents and sister May Isabel Wind.

13/5/1910 - Joins the Merchant Navy in Glasgow

1911 census - Scottish??

11th January 1915 - Enters France as Driver with 2nd Aircraft Park

19th September 1915 - Commissioned 7th KOYLI

February 1916 - Sick Leave

1916 - Marriage to Beatrice Louise Bown

27th July 1916 & 14th August 1916 - Passes bad cheques to a catering firm (Messeurs Cox & co.) and an Orderly, E. W. Nicholls

4th November 1916 -  charged with 'Conduct to the prejudice of good order and Military Discipline' and 'behaving in a scandalous manner unbecoming the character of an officer and a gentleman' for impersonating a naval officer.

15th August 1917 - Relinquishes his commission on account of ill health caused by wounds

1917 - Silver War Badge number 240014. Address -  46, Southwald Mansions, Maida Vale

15/8/1917 Relinquishes his commission on grounds of ill health.

1918 - Living at 5 Kilmore Terrace with Dalgety Edward Nicholson, 1/A.M.RAF

1919 -  Beatrice Louise Wind petitions for divorce

April 29, 1919 - 6 months in second division for larceny

October 10, 1919, Bound over In the sum of £10 for obtaining a motor-cycle by false pretences

1920 - Co-respondent in divorce between Owen Llewellyn Owen and Honor Cecial McLean Owen.

1920 February - Medal card gives address as Forest Hill, Beaumont Hill, Jersey. Medals returned.

1920 March - Committed for breaking into a garage and stealing a motor car. Address: Queensborough Terrace, Paddington

1920 April 27th - Bound over for two years .Claimed to have been an RAF officer that crashed from 5000ft.

1924 - Drives bus into a ditch in Kent. Address: Sandown, Haslemere Road, Beltinge, Herne Bay

1928 November - Forms a company known as "Red Road Cars" with money borrowed from his mother.

6th April 1929 - M&D take over 12A bus route from G.S. Wind t/a Red Road Cars in the Maidstone area.

1929 June - Marriage to Alberta "Coralie" Armitage in Lambeth (she re-married in 1954 and died in 1982 Horsham)

1929 September - 6 months hard labour Addresses - Gleneldon Road, Streatham (Aug 1929) and Fontenoy Road, Balham (Sept 1929). Fraudulent motor deal.

1930 - Case for dangerous driving in busdismissed. “Sun Haven", Collingwood Road, Whitstable

1931 - Wife Coralie Wind fined for keeping a dog without a licence. Address: 69, Windmill-lane, Greenford

1931 - Living at 8a Castlebar Road, Harrow with Alberta Coralie. 

1933 - Living at 112 Cambridge Street, Westminster with "Caroline" Wind

1934 - Living at 10 Lyndhurst Gardens, Hendon with Alberta Coralie.

1936 - Living at 61 Woodham Lane, Chertsey with Coralie.

1937 - George 'Victor' Wind living with Coralie Alberta at Flat 2, 2-10 Jerdan Place, Hammersmith.

1938 - Living at 26b Belgrave Road, Westminster with Coralie.

1939 - Living at 1 Gloucester Street with Coralie.

1939 register - Coralie A Wind, widow, short-hand typist, 1 Gloucester Street

1939 register - George S Wind born 9/2/1895 living with brother-in-law Leonard G Barnes, sister May and mother Ellen  at 31 Bridle Road, Pinner.

1939 register - George S Wind born 9/2/1897 living with the Frew family at 347 Sutton Common Road, Sutton/Cheam.

1940 - Wife Coralie charged with soliciting at Wilton road, Pimlico  Address: Gloucester Street, Pimlico

24th June 1941 - Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve Temporary Lieutenant

1944 June - Marriage to Ivy Lilian Wale nee Westall in Hampstead. (Died 1991 in Havering, Essex)

1944 Navy List - Temporary Acting Lt. Commander (President III)

1946 - Living at 54c King Henry's Road, Hampstead with Ivy L Wind.

1951 - Death in Northampton, aged 56

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IPT

As an aside, in 1939, one of the addresses Wind was living at was 31 Bridle Road with his mother, sister and brother-in-law, Leonard G Barnes.

 

In 1937, Leonard Barnes had his car set on fire at 1am, outside that address!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sadbrewer
2 hours ago, IPT said:

As an aside, in 1939, one of the addresses Wind was living at was 31 Bridle Road with his mother, sister and brother-in-law, Leonard G Barnes.

 

In 1937, Leonard Barnes had his car set on fire at 1am, outside that address!

 

 Cracking work there IPT....Just to add a little I've been working on,  there's a possibility I've located someone who has the Wind DNA that may be  useful for comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DavidOwen

I have only had time for a quick gander through GSW's record which appears to have his original RFC attestation,loads of medical boards (mainly pension related!) and both of his two Courts Martial. Yes he was tried twice for the same four offences as the first CM was subsequently deemed to have been "improperly constituted".

 

His signature is there and there is a very interesting newspaper cutting pasted in which relates to one of his civilian trials annotated with "Should have been at a Medical Board on ..." the dates being similar.

 

I haven't seen any smoking guns or skeletons so far and there doesn't appear to be a record of the "incident" involving his aeroplane crash which is described variously on various medical board records. A question though for our more medically qualified colleagues - how easy would it be to fake optic neuritis? (I am guessing he could easily fake the eyesight and field of vision tests... NOT that I am suggesting he did so...).

 

Once I have some more time available after the weekend I shall try to do a more specific summary.

 

Sorry, forgot to mention that at some time the Army put out an advert for suitable candidates to apply to join the Indian Police..... yes he did apply!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IPT
18 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

 A question though for our more medically qualified colleagues - how easy would it be to fake optic neuritis?

 

I'd say it would be difficult, but we should ask  @Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
On 06/09/2019 at 15:49, IPT said:

 

I'd say it would be difficult, but we should ask  @Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

 

Very hard.

I am assuming that someone clinically proficient made the diagnosis?

Even if you were to fake the symptoms- loss or blurring of vision, there should be objective findings on the optic disc particularly in advanced cases- it should be pinkish, but it goes pale, and often swollen in optic neuritis. Nobody could fake that. The disc of course could look like another type of pathology and be misdiagnosed, but faking it? No.

I suppose it would be possible to have no changes at all in the discs at a very early stage of an illness like MS, at which point it is conceivable that the diagnosis was made on history alone by a trusting doctor.

 

Have a look at this fundoscopy website that gives examples of what the discs look like in different conditions:

https://www.welchallyn.com/en/students/ophthalmoscopy-pathologies.html

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DavidOwen
21 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Very hard.

I am assuming that someone clinically proficient made the diagnosis?

Even if you were to fake the symptoms- loss or blurring of vision, there should be objective findings on the optic disc particularly in advanced cases- it should be pinkish, but it goes pale, and often swollen in optic neuritis. Nobody could fake that. The disc of course could look like another type of pathology and be misdiagnosed, but faking it? No.

I suppose it would be possible to have no changes at all in the discs at a very early stage of an illness like MS, at which point it is conceivable that the diagnosis was made on history alone by a trusting doctor.

 

Have a look at this fundoscopy website that gives examples of what the discs look like in different conditions:

https://www.welchallyn.com/en/students/ophthalmoscopy-pathologies.html

Thanks Dai

Would the techniques to diagnose via the fundus etc. be in place in WW1? (I am guessing the optical instruments available would do the job).

Regards

DAvid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
1 hour ago, DavidOwen said:

Thanks Dai

Would the techniques to diagnose via the fundus etc. be in place in WW1? (I am guessing the optical instruments available would do the job).

Regards

DAvid

Interesting question.

It would seem that Welch and Allyn produced the precursor  of the modern ophthalmoscope in 1915, although something different and presumably acceptable had been in use since 1857.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophthalmoscopy

 

Where does the question of optic neuritis arise in this fascinating story, that I am only now reading for the first time?

 

Edit:

Yes It looks as though the optic disc changes in optic neuritis were diagnosable by ophthalmoscopy as early as 1884 (if not earlier):

http://cdmbuntu.lib.utah.edu/utils/getfile/collection/jno/id/674/filename/675.pdf

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...