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Lawlessx

*HELP* Jack ernest moore - 1st lieutenant machine gun Corps

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HolymoleyRE

Evidence for GS Wind is strong... But could we still be looking for an American.... Or did GS Wind use Jack E Moore's identity to shmoose the ladies... I work in the movies...and a 1st Lieutenant (which is very American sounding). 

 

Bolton's Mutual appears to have been founded by Arthur Levey an American Infantry man in WW1...and if my interpretation is correct a Irish Loyalist sympathiser... The connection to Belfast perhaps. 

 

 

Screenshot_20190811_192613.jpg

Edited by HolymoleyRE

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sadbrewer
39 minutes ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Reading more about Bolton's Mutual they were later incorporated into Wardour Films Limited...so may not have been a scam. 

Strangely enough I've been doing some research into early British Cinema, Bolton's Mutual were a film rental company and as far as I can determine were a legitimate enterprise.

   My guess is that perhaps our Mr Wind just gave the name of one of his at one time close neighbours...or as you suggest, using J E Moore to impress...he's certainly unscrupulous enough.

Edited by sadbrewer

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Lawlessx

Liam Only minor additions, I'm afraid. Emma Louisa Evan swas 36 at the time of her marriage on October 18th, 1913. Although her address was St James Park, Harrogate, the wedding was at St Barnabas Church, Morecambe, Lancashire, where Albert Anderson lived. Emma's father was William Evans, an iron worker.

 

from pat

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sadbrewer
1 hour ago, Lawlessx said:

Pat has read this and thanks you all ! 

 

She has just had a look at some of some of her stuff..

 

She has her adopted grandmothers death certificate - Emma Louise Evans ?

 

Death 17/11/28 aged 51.

 

She will scan this for me.

 

She is now thinking more towards Mr Wind (or what ever her choose to call himself ) as her possible grandfather! 

 

Liam

Hi Liam

   I've closed all the windows down now, but going off the top, am  I right in thinking Emma Louise Evans validates the Lancaster suggestion in the 1939 Register as suggested by dgibson150 earlier....if so I think it's probably just a coincidence with the common Evans name.

 

Edit...just crossed in transit with your post!!

Edited by sadbrewer

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Lawlessx

Christine was adopted by emma louise Evans, her biological mother was Ada Annie Evans! Emma died in Morecambe Lancs ...

 

Christine found out she was adopted when she was 12 

 

 

Edited by Lawlessx

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helpjpl
1 hour ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Evidence for GS Wind is strong... But could we still be looking for an American.... Or did GS Wind use Jack E Moore's identity to shmoose the ladies... I work in the movies...and a 1st Lieutenant (which is very American sounding). 

 

Bolton's Mutual appears to have been founded by Arthur Levey an American Infantry man in WW1...and if my interpretation is correct a Irish Loyalist sympathiser... The connection to Belfast perhaps. 

 

 

Ancestry has 4 passport applications for Arthur Levey born 12 February 1894 in NY City.

 

His first, in 1919, lists his occupation as 'Exporter of American productions' and shows that he served overseas with the 307th Infantry and 2nd Corps HQ, AEF, from 19 April 1918 to 10 February 1919. By 1923 he is an 'Agent for Motion Picture Producers' having contracts in Europe with Maurice Tourneur,  Morris Veasey & Co, Al Lichtman Corp and Hollywood Studios.

 

Eileen Christine was born on 10 August 1918 and likely conceived during the week of 13-21 November 1917. 

 

JP

Edited by helpjpl
typo

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sadbrewer
2 hours ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Reading more about Bolton's Mutual they were later incorporated into Wardour Films Limited...so may not have been a scam. 

   

 This could just be a massive coincidence.

  Investing in the early movies was an expensive business as you might expect.

It would need to be a person of fairly significant means...with that in mind I decided to look for well heeled J E Moore's ...this chap could be a candidate, a Wandsworth solicitor, probably there are others, but if you look at the unusual name of his son in the 1911 census it is very tantalising.

Ralph Ommanney Moore.

 

Between 1890 and 1930 there are only 7 boys in the UK given Ommanney as a Christian name, one of the others is G S Wind's RAF Kildare Terrace flatmate, Dalgety Edward Ommanney Nicholson.

Coincidence?

 

Screenshot_20190811-205124.jpg

Edited by sadbrewer

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HolymoleyRE
16 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

Ralph Ommanney Moore

So we need to connect Moore to another Ommanney... 

 

On a twist in 1898 JE Moore's brother in law (an RE Officer) died of undetermined poisoning. 

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IPT

We’re in murky waters, my friends.

 

Love it.

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HolymoleyRE
34 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

   

 This could just be a massive coincidence.

  Investing in the early movies was an expensive business as you might expect.

It would need to be a person of fairly significant means...with that in mind I decided to look for well heeled J E Moore's ...this chap could be a candidate, a Wandsworth solicitor, probably there are others, but if you look at the unusual name of his son in the 1911 census it is very tantalising.

Ralph Ommanney Moore.

 

Between 1890 and 1930 there are only 7 boys in the UK given Ommanney as a Christian name, one of the others is G S Wind's RAF Kildare Terrace flatmate, Dalgety Edward Ommanney Nicholson.

Coincidence?

 

Screenshot_20190811-205124.jpg

Ethel Julia Moore's (nee Warde) mother was Julia C Ommanney. 

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jay dubaya
6 minutes ago, IPT said:

We’re in murky waters, my friends.

 

Love it.

 

Indeed, I’ve followed this thread since it’s first posting and must admit to being a little gripped by its development over the last few days.

 

J

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sadbrewer
7 minutes ago, HolymoleyRE said:

So we need to connect Moore to another Ommanney... 

 

  Or to Nicholson.

 

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HolymoleyRE
1 hour ago, sadbrewer said:

 

The coincidences are too great, can't quite make the full connection as yet, but Ommanney isn't a name you would pluck out from thin air, Dalgety's father's middle name Donaldson was his mother's maiden name, his father Henry Joseph Boone Donaldson similar detail. 

 

So Henry Donaldson a Clergy man & his two known well connected wives liked to use family surnames as middle names and indeed first names amongst the football team amount of children ...so there must be a link to an Ommanney surname somewhere.

 

In 1919 Dalgety is still living in 5 Kildare terrace, who goes on to be a radio telegraphist for the post office and work for the BBC. 

 

I am still in the George S Wind space, who took on well personnas from his well connected acquaintances. 

 

Edited by HolymoleyRE

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PRC
3 hours ago, Lawlessx said:

Liam Only minor additions, I'm afraid. Emma Louisa Evan swas 36 at the time of her marriage on October 18th, 1913. Although her address was St James Park, Harrogate, the wedding was at St Barnabas Church, Morecambe, Lancashire, where Albert Anderson lived. Emma's father was William Evans, an iron worker.

 

from pat

 

One possible next line of enquiry is if Emma Louisa Evans had a niece Ada Annie Evans.

 

If Emma Louisa Evans was 36 when she married on the October 18th, 1913, and 51 when she died on the 17/11/28, and was apparently single when she married, (her father is given as William Evans, an Iron Worker) then that gives you a date of birth (approximately) between the 18th November 1876 and the 18th October 1877.

 

Potential births that match that in the GRO quarterly index for England and Wales are.

Emma Louisa Evans, Q4 1876 West Bromwich District – mothers’ maiden name Smallman.

Emma Louisa Evans Q2 1877 Madeley District, Shropshire – mothers’ maiden name Duddell.

 

On the 1881 Census of England and Wales the 4 year old Emma Louisa Evans, born Dawley, Shropshire, was recorded living at Frame Lane, Dawley. The address fell within the Madelely Civil Registration District. Her father was William, a Puddler Forgeman.

On the same census the 4 year old Emma L. Evans, born West Bromwich, was recorded living at Union Street, West Bromwich. Her father was Henry, a Roller at an Iron Works.

 

So looks like the focus needs to be on the Dawley born woman. Or it would be except she and the rest of the family seems to disappear from the subsequent censuses. They were:-

Father William, 34, who was born Little Wenlock, Shropshire

Mother Mary, 33, was born Dawley

Brother William Henry(?), 8, was born Dawley

Sister Sarah Elizabeth, 7, was born Dawley

Brother Frederick Charles, 5, was born Dawley.

 

Just to close off the loop – a William Evans married a Mary Duddell in the Madeley District in Q2 of 1872. This is the only marriage I could identify in England and Wales for a male Evans to a female Duddell. The only children registered with the surname Evans, mothers maiden name Duddell were all in the Madeley District.

William Henry……Q1 1873

Sarah Elizabeth….Q1 1874

Frederick Charles..Q4 1875

Harriet…………….Q3 1881

Herbert James…..Q4 1884

 

The nearest thing to a match for Emma Louisa on the 1911 Census is an “Emily” Evans, aged 30 and a single woman born Doseley, Shropshire – the next village to the WNW of Little Dawley and W of Dawley. Emily was a live in Cook at the Boarding School at 20 Park Avenue, Harrogate.

 

Her brothers and sisters would have been old enough to be having children of their own by the 1890’s and so one of those children would either be old enough to have been the wife of Jack Ernest Moore or more likely the young single girl who was the biological mother of Ellen Christine.

 

Possibles to consider on the 1911 Census.

 

William Henry Evans. There is a 39 year old married man, born Horsehay, Shropshire, who was recorded as the head of the household at 23 Broad Street, Burslem, Staffordshire. He worked as a Iron Puddler. He lives there with his wife of 11 years Lillie, (aged 33, born Hamley, Staffordshire). The couple have had 6 children of which 5 were then still alive including daughters Lillie, (11), Mary, (8) and Elizabeth, (under 1). Horsehay is west of Dawley and Doseley.

 

Sarah Elizabeth Evans. There is an interesting household at 30 Grant Street, Burslem, Staffordshire. A 37 year old unmarried woman, born “Dozeley”, Shropshire, was housekeeper at this address to her widowed brother-in-law, John Mason, (29). John has has 3 children but only 1 was then alive. Also in the household is Johns son, the 3 year old John Reginald and his father-in-law the 65 year old widower William Evans, an Ironworker born Coalmoor, Shropshire. Coalmoor is north of Horsehay and north-west of Doseley & Little Dawley and west of Dawley, and east of Little Wenlock – the birthplace shown on the 1881 Census. There is a marriage of a John Mason to a Harriet Evans recorded in the Wolstanton District of Staffordshire in Q3 of 1903. The death of a 28 year old Harriet Mason was recorded in the Wolstanton District in Q1 of 1910 – that would tie in with the expected age of Harriet Evans.

 

Frederick Charles Evans. ??

Herbert James Evans. ??

 

Can’t exactly rule out this line of enquiry, but unless another viable candidate for the Emma Louisa Evans can be identified, or better candidates for the siblings of the Shropshire born one, then it’s beginning to seem unlikely.

 

Peter

 

Edited by PRC
Typo

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helpjpl
6 hours ago, sadbrewer said:

  

Screenshot_20190811-205124.jpg

 

5 hours ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Ethel Julia Moore's (nee Warde) mother was Julia C Ommanney. 

 

Sorry to disappoint you but there was nothing unusual in naming a son after his grandmother, and I have numerous examples in my family tree - including my great grandfather.

 

In this case Ralph was almost certainly named after his maternal grandmother Julia Cranstown Ommanney. (She married Henry Hollingworth Warde in 1866 and their daughter Ethel Julia was born in 1872)

 

JP

Edited by helpjpl
To add #60

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HolymoleyRE
4 hours ago, helpjpl said:

Sorry to disappoint you but there was nothing unusual in naming a son after his grandmother, and I have numerous examples in my family tree - including my great grandfather.

Agreed JP, just not an overly common name that pops in the midst of circumstantial coincidences, but nothing solid as per #63 to substantiate a true link. 

 

Seems Moore was part (even a partner) of the Gibbon & Moore Solicitors. 

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HolymoleyRE
12 hours ago, IPT said:

We’re in murky waters, my friends.

 

Love it.

Murkier still IPT. 

 

I think we need to perhaps hold on the John Ernest Moore, connection.  

 

And maybe look at this man Hugh Launcelot Lyndhurst as our connection to George Stephen Wind and Jack (E) Moore of the film industry. 

 

George S Wind's SWB contact address was 46 Southwold Mansions, living in 46 Southwold Mansions in 1920 is Hugh (Launcelot) Lyndhurst an Actor and an Army Deserter in 1916.  Hugh marries Wilhelmina Priscilla Bush, they divorce in 1933 naming Edward Piggott Driver, whom she marries, but later kills herself in 1935....3 and half years later Edward H P Driver a film actor kills himself.... 

 

So George Stephen Wind is very much still on the cards, just hope someone happens to be at the TNA to pull his KOYLI file. 

 

If we get to the bottom of this, this is a thriller in the making 

 

Andy 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by HolymoleyRE

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DavidOwen

If all else fails I am happy to get a researcher to copy Wind's TNA file.

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DavidOwen

A Solicitor Mr J E Moore (aged 37) sailed from Liverpool to Calcutta on 28th October 1914 aboard the City of Paris. Might be a reason for no military service...

FMP link

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PRC
9 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

A Solicitor Mr J E Moore (aged 37) sailed from Liverpool to Calcutta on 28th October 1914 aboard the City of Paris. Might be a reason for no military service...

FMP link

 

Or why George Wind could safely use that alias or share it with like minded souls who could use it fraudently to register the birth of the baby.

 

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dgibson150

Talk of coincidences. My grandfather was 4th Engineer on the City of Paris for Moore's voyage to Calcutta!

 

David

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sadbrewer
11 hours ago, helpjpl said:

 

 

Sorry to disappoint you but there was nothing unusual in naming a son after his grandmother, and I have numerous examples in my family tree - including my great grandfather.

 

In this case Ralph was almost certainly named after his maternal grandmother Julia Cranstown Ommanney. (She married Henry Hollingworth Warde in 1866 and their daughter Ethel Julia was born in 1872)

 

JP

Hi JP

   I did factor that in putting it forward, I have some very unusual names in my own tree, Jewsbury...Endsor...Lings and Gershom, and in the case of the first three I can trace virtually everyone back to the same roots.

    On the face of it Ommanney seems to be at least as rare, at a guess it's probably in the tiniest of fractions of one per cent of the population, and as such is highly unlikely to crop up twice in the same investigation unless there is a link.

   Having said all that, I agree it could be unrelated although the balance of probability might suggest otherwise.

 

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Lawlessx
15 hours ago, PRC said:

 

One possible next line of enquiry is if Emma Louisa Evans had a niece Ada Annie Evans.

 

If Emma Louisa Evans was 36 when she married on the October 18th, 1913, and 51 when she died on the 17/11/28, and was apparently single when she married, (her father is given as William Evans, an Iron Worker) then that gives you a date of birth (approximately) between the 18th November 1876 and the 18th October 

Christine remembered she was taken from a house at 2 half years old - earliest memory ! 

 

 

Edited by Lawlessx

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sadbrewer
4 hours ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Murkier still IPT. 

 

I think we need to perhaps hold on the John Ernest Moore, connection.  

 

And maybe look at this man Hugh Launcelot Lyndhurst as our connection to George Stephen Wind and Jack (E) Moore of the film industry. 

 

George S Wind's SWB contact address was 46 Southwold Mansions, living in 46 Southwold Mansions in 1920 is Hugh (Launcelot) Lyndhurst an Actor and an Army Deserter in 1916.  Hugh marries Wilhelmina Priscilla Bush, they divorce in 1933 naming Edward Piggott Driver, whom she marries, but later kills herself in 1935....3 and half years later Edward H P Driver a film actor kills himself.... 

 

So George Stephen Wind is very much still on the cards, just hope someone happens to be at the TNA to pull his KOYLI file. 

 

If we get to the bottom of this, this is a thriller in the making 

 

Andy 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a bit from the British Newspaper Archive about Mr Lyndhurst.

Screenshot_20190812-151436.jpg

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DavidOwen

I have added the Service file for Lieutenant George Stephen Wind KOYLI to my Researcher's to do list. Will report back when it arrives...

 

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