*HELP* Jack ernest moore - 1st lieutenant machine gun Corps

[IPT]

Excellent sleuthing, chaps.

 

It’s intriguing isn’t it? If they aren’t the same man, then they both boarded at the same address in 1918 and would have likely bumped into each other.

 

i thought I was reaching too far when I posted about Wind. Now I’m coming round to the possibility, as we learn more about his character.

 

Anyone had any joy with the Warwick Crescent address? I haven’t, but I’m working from a phone abroad.

 

 

[DavidOwen]

Incidentally Kildare Terrace Bayswater is now  expensive property at an average of £2.2 million each for a 6 bedded terrace house. Using the street view number 5 can be found fairly easily https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/2-kildare-terrace/london/w2-5lx/25013138

 

Still struggling with a connection between Wind and Moore..... Why the elaborate Christian names?

[DavidOwen]

Can anyone check the details of the births on the attached FMP screenshot? Just wondering if the "Moore / Evans" might have been a means of registering illegitimate births "on request"?

[PRC]

2 hours ago, IPT said:

Anyone had any joy with the Warwick Crescent address? I

 

Attached is the 1911 Census of England and Wales return for 18 Warwick Crescent, Paddington. It looks like a private birthing hospital - in my experience of investigating two other births from the first  half of the 20th Century such places provided a discreet service for single parents who could pay, often with links to potential adoptors. Obviously its not documented but I suspect its not unlikely that for an extra fee such places might have been able to supply the documentation to "legitimise" such a birth - and George Wind might have been just the sort of person prepared to sell their I.D details, (or at least one of them!) for a spot of cash. Of course that raises the possibility that he wasn't the biological father.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited 10 August , 2019 by PRC
Typo

[IPT]

43 minutes ago, PRC said:

 

Attached is the 1911 Census of England and Wales return for 18 Warwick Crescent, Paddington. It looks like a private birthing hospital - in my experience of investigating two other births from the first  half of the 20th Century such places provided a discreet service for single parents who could pay, often with links to potential adoptors. Obviously its not documented but I suspect its not unlikely that for an extra fee such places might have been able to supply the documentation to "legitimise" such a birth - and George Wind might have been just the sort of person prepared to sell their I.D details, (or at least one of them!) for a spot of cash. Of course that raises the possibility that he wasn't the biological father.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

Thanks, Peter. Very interesting.

 

Eva Flower was certainly unmarried. She appears on the 1901 Irish census in County Durrow, as a daughter of a family with four servants.

 

 

1 hour ago, DavidOwen said:

Can anyone check the details of the births on the attached FMP screenshot? Just wondering if the "Moore / Evans" might have been a means of registering illegitimate births "on request"?

 

Sidney J C Moore is interesting. I thought it could be a twin, but he was born 14/08/1918 according to his death registration in 1994 (still possible I suppose if the date was wrong). He married Rose Hunt in 1937, and they are on the 1939 register in Paddington with two other people, probably one of them is a daughter.

 

Births Sep 1918   (>99%)
Moore     Eileen C     Evans     Paddington     1a    68      
Moore     Sidney J C     Evans     Paddington     1a    70

Edited 10 August , 2019 by IPT

[DavidOwen]

All those I posted above had a mother with the maiden name of Evans and were born in or around Paddington. Hence my request for more details.

Thanks for posting the Sidney detail, would be good to see what the address was?

[helpjpl]

4 hours ago, IPT said:

 

It’s intriguing isn’t it? If they aren’t the same man, then they both boarded at the same address in 1918 and would have likely bumped into each other.

Anyone had any joy with the Warwick Crescent address? 

3 hours ago, DavidOwen said:

Still struggling with a connection between Wind and Moore..... Why the elaborate Christian names?

 

 

1. I've trawled through the 1918 London Electoral Registers for Warwick Crescent and no names leap out apart from Maria Williams who is still at No. 18 (see #29).

On Eileen's birth certificate (see column 1 in #6) what appears to be the number 38 is crossed out and 18 added. There is no number 38 Warwick Crescent in the 1918 register.

 

1918 London Electoral Register for Kildare Terrace. George Stephen Wind is listed but not Jack Ernest Moore and his wife Ada (see #6):

 

2.  We don't know what Christian/forenames George Wind used when he posed as Lt Dalton RN in 1916.

 

JP

 

Edited 10 August , 2019 by helpjpl
(see #29)

[dgibson150]

Re post #29.

I had the same idea that 18 Warwick Terrace may have been some sort of clinic.  The electoral register for 1918 shows two people resident, namely Maria Williams and Violet Cummings. The 1919 electoral register shows only Maria Williams. I am no expert on voting rights, but in all cases these residents have the right to vote by virtue of their occupation.

 

David

[PRC]

1 hour ago, dgibson150 said:

Re post #29.

I had the same idea that 18 Warwick Terrace may have been some sort of clinic.  The electoral register for 1918 shows two people resident, namely Maria Williams and Violet Cummings. The 1919 electoral register shows only Maria Williams. I am no expert on voting rights, but in all cases these residents have the right to vote by virtue of their occupation.

 

David

 

Occupation, as in living there, not because of their livelihood..

 

The 1918 Representation of the People Act is remembered for extending the vote to Women but it wasn't as simple as that. The property qualification that had previously existed for men was done away for that sex. but in giving the vote to woman it was retained for them, plus there was a higher qualification age for women, (30) than had previously applied to men, (24). So as with men prior to 1918 the vast majority of woman who gained the vote were tenants who were the head of the household - whether that was a house, flat or bedsit \ furnished room \ unfurnished room.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/electionsvoting/womenvote/case-study-the-right-to-vote/the-right-to-vote/birmingham-and-the-equal-franchise/1918-representation-of-the-people-act/

 

Maria Williams, (aged 46 in 1911) would have easily met those qualifying term - given how long she lived there and the business she was carrying out I suspect she may even have owned the property. Additionally she may have let rooms to an employee, who then in turn would have qualified for the vote if they were aged over 30 and had a "rent book", or given wartime inflation and the exorbitant rental market in London by that stage of the war Maria may have chosen to sub-let part of the property to provide a steady income and cash-in. If Violet Cummings moved out and a woman under 30 moved in at the time the 1919 electoral register was being prepared this new tenant would not qualify for the vote.

 

I only have knowledge of one such establishment, (from WW2) and there is a strong possibility that as well as providing discreet facilities for the birth of children and and their subsequent adoption, it, (and I have no idea if Warwick Crescent was the same), also provided the facilities for termination of embarassing pregnancies. Certainly the one I looked at seemed to have a high turnover of staff - the proprietor, like Maria Williams, was a midwife - was forever advertising for female staff with operating theatre \ surgery ward \ sanatorium experience. What they didn't seem to do was advertise the services they provided.

 

The likelihood is that 18 Warwick Crescent is peripheral to the story other than that the child known as Eileen Christine Moore was born there - no records of such a small private institution are likely to have survived. We don't even know if she was the child of the woman who registered the birth - part of the reason that drove the formalisation of the adoption process in 1927 was to stop the market for baby-selling, which had a strong criminal involvement.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[dgibson150]

Thanks Peter for the clarification. I agree that 18 Warwick Crescent is probably peripheral to the story but you never know until there is a solution.

 

David

[johnboy]

1939Register...one shows a George S Wind born 9/2/1895 living with Ellen, his mother? at 31 Bridle Road, Ruislip/Northwood.

And Marital Status divorced

[PRC]

13 minutes ago, johnboy said:

1939Register...one shows a George S Wind born 9/2/1895 living with Ellen, his mother? at 31 Bridle Road, Ruislip/Northwood.

And Marital Status divorced

 

See post 18 where he was identified both with this information and (possibly) elsewhere with a date of birth that made him exactly two years younger.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[IPT]

For what it's worth, the other resident of 5 Kildare Terrace, Dalgety Edward Ommanney Nicholson, was a 1st Air Mechanic in 1918.

[sadbrewer]

44 minutes ago, IPT said:

For what it's worth, the other resident of 5 Kildare Terrace, Dalgety Edward Ommanney Nicholson, was a 1st Air Mechanic in 1918.

 

 You just beat me to it there IPT...despite 'only' being AC1, it appears he is from quite a well to do Plymouth family.

   It seems to me that we, collectively, have possibly pulled a large part of this story together.

  We have identified that 18 Warwick Crescent is a birth/adoption clinic.

I think the 5 Kildare Terrace address is probably correct, and that certainly one, but probably both names on the birth certificate are false.

Leaving the possibility that either George Stephen Wind or Dalgety Edward Ommanney Nicholson is the father.

  Wind, at face value is the most likely candidate

( circumstantially that is)...he appears to be a serial womaniser judging by his own divorce and his involvement in the divorce case of Owen Llewellyn Owen, who appears to be a fellow RAF Officer.

  I have found another 1929 marriage for GS Wind in Lambeth, but cannot prove it is him. He seems to have few morals judging by his various court appearances...  having said all that it only takes one mistake...perhaps it was Nicholson?...but that still leaves the question who was the mother?

   Has anyone sorted out who the Honor Cecial Mclean Owen was in the divorce case?

Andy

Edited 10 August , 2019 by sadbrewer

[Lawlessx]

6 hours ago, DavidOwen said:

All those I posted above had a mother with the maiden name of Evans and were born in or around Paddington. Hence my request for more details.

Thanks for posting the Sidney detail, would be good to see what the address was?

I will email pat tomorrow for more details.

 

I've been out for the day and I'm going to catch up with reading this in the morning! 

 

I'm not sure I will tell her all this just yet.

 

You guys are amazing btw Thank you !

 

 

[IPT]

5 hours ago, sadbrewer said:

Has anyone sorted out who the Honor Cecial Mclean Owen was in the divorce case?

 

Her surname was previously Montrose, allegedly. The marriage took place in St Giles in late 1916. I can find no trace of her prior to this.

 

Possibly, she married Reginald John Dharwar in 1931, and possibly she died as Honor C M Dewar in 1941, aged 48. She's on the 1939 register. I don't know if there are any further clues there.

[HarryBrook]

Another address relating to 2nd Lt. George Stephen Wind: his address given on the Silver War Badge list was 46, Southwald Mansions, Maida Vale, London W9. Badge number 240014.

[DavidOwen]

6 hours ago, HarryBrook said:

Another address relating to 2nd Lt. George Stephen Wind: his address given on the Silver War Badge list was 46, Southwald Mansions, Maida Vale, London W9. Badge number 240014.

 

Probably of little relevance but here are the occupants of that address as per 1911 Census. Image from FMP.

[HolymoleyRE]

7 hours ago, HarryBrook said:

Another address relating to 2nd Lt. George Stephen Wind: his address given on the Silver War Badge list was 46, Southwald Mansions, Maida Vale, London W9. Badge number 240014.

Maybe a coincidence...or not 1916 newspaper article, Boltons Mutual Films Limited names a "Subscriber" as J E Moore, 67 Southwold Mansions, Maida Vale.

 

Can't see number 67 on the 1911 Census... 

Edited 11 August , 2019 by HolymoleyRE

[DavidOwen]

16 minutes ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Maybe a coincidence...or not 1916 newspaper article, Boltons Mutual Films Limited names a "Subscriber" as J E Moore, 67 Southwold Mansions, Maida Vale.

 

Can't see number 67 on the 1911 Census... 

 

 

Now that IS interesting, Mutual Film Corporation, the American Company was the one that made Charlie Chaplin a star.

Me suspects a scam....

 

However, this suggests Jack Moore is real! 

[DavidOwen]

Seems the company did make a small number of films. A variety of 5 Act Movies are mentioned in the Newspaper search but couldn't see anything post 1919.

[PRC]

19 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

Me suspects a scam....

The British Film Institute lists an American Film Company with films released in:-

 

1910 The Tenth Case - Bolton's Mutual Films Ltd

https://www.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b7784bb8f

1910 Philip Holden - Waster - Bolton's Mutual Films Ltd

https://www.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b7575e5b1

1917 Heart of the Flirt - Bolton's Mutual Film Limited

https://www.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b72477df6

1917 Pride and the Man - Bolton's Mutual Film Limited.

https://www.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b75bbbca3

1918 Ann's Finish -  Bolton Mutual Film Limited. Starring Margarita Fischer.

https://www.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b6bc06306

 

Mary Miles Minter, (the actress) was contracted to Paramount by the start of the 1920's, although her career dimmed with the murder of her producer boyfriend in 1922, a man 30 years her senior. Her biggest film was the adaption of Anne of Green Gables, released by Paramount in 1919.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Miles_Minter

 

So back to the scam. The name may have been registered in the UK to force the US company to pay out before it could arrange distribution of it's films in this country or anywhere else that Jack Moore and his cronies had got in first. We think of in terms of website addresses but the scam itself is as old as limited companies.

 

Also - reading that second article, does it read more like Mr Jack Moore is employed by Films Ltd of Belfast rather than Bolton's Mutual Films Ltd?

 

Cheers,

Peter

[DavidOwen]

Thanks Peter

None of those titles feature in the newspaper articles I found but Ms Fischer does.

David

[Lawlessx]

Pat has read this and thanks you all ! 

 

She has just had a look at some of some of her stuff..

 

She has her adopted grandmothers death certificate - Emma Louise Evans ?

 

Death 17/11/28 aged 51.

 

She will scan this for me.

 

She is now thinking more towards Mr Wind (or what ever her choose to call himself ) as her possible grandfather! 

 

Liam

[HolymoleyRE]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

So back to the scam. The name may have been registered in the UK to force the US company to pay out before it could arrange distribution of it's films in this country or anywhere else that Jack Moore and his cronies had got in first. We think of in terms of website addresses but the scam itself is as old as limited companies.

Reading more about Bolton's Mutual they were later incorporated into Wardour Films Limited...so may not have been a scam.