Commanding officer of HMT Ben Lawers?

[Michael Lowrey]

Early on December 9, 1917, HMT Ben Lawers was escorting a coal convey to France when it sighted a submarine at short rage in front it, which it proceeded to ram. The armed trawler's victim was the UB 18.

 

Simple question: who was Ben Lawers commanding office at the time?

[seaJane]

• If this is her in TNA Kew (I think you want the Aberdeen-built vessel) I do not know whether the papers will detail commander or crew: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10339188
• Ship listed under "Merchant Vessels &c" in Navy List but no commander or crew given. 
• No sign in British Newspaper Archive.
• Internet searches all give the ship with no commander.
• She appears as HMS [sic] "Ben Lawers" in the London Gazette with reference to the salvage of SS JUPITER (late 1917-early 1918) but no commander mentioned.

The one source which might have something but to which I no longer have access is the Times Digital Archive. If your public library system subscribes, you'll be able to access it in the library or with a library card.

 

sJ

[Kath]

Michael, there are crew lists here but missing years 1913-1918:

https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=112937

There may be help here:

https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/glaas/archives/2e834ce4-f0d9-3f2e-b8d0-1234bb367d65

Kath.

Edited 7 August , 2019 by Kath

[rolt968]

1 hour ago, Kath said:

There may be help here:

https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/glaas/archives/2e834ce4-f0d9-3f2e-b8d0-1234bb367d65

 

I don't think these are the correct owners. Ben Lawers (A331) was owned by a series of Aberdeen trawler owners. See here:

http://www.aberdeenships.com/single.asp?offset=260&index=101041

 

She was lost in a collision off Girdleness about 1930.

I have found a lot of information about her but no information about WW1 skippers. You would think there would be something somewhere, particularly as she was a minesweeping trawler (not A/S).

 

Incidentally Togill (Royal Navy Trawlere) mis-spells her "Ben Lawyers" - actually not a totally unknown mispronunciation. (One of my teachers (not I hasten to add my geography teacher) pronounced it that way while climbing the mountain!) I have searched for Ben Lawyers trawler, just in case and drawn a blank. 

 

RM

[horatio2]

I believe the skipper to have been James Culling, 380.WSA, RNR.

I took a pot at the skipper having been awarded a DSC for the action. and four skippers were listed under "Honours for Services in Action with Enemy Submarines" in LG 30536 dated 19 Feb 1918. Of these four, Skipper Culling was appointed to HMS BEN LAWERS on 21 Aug 17 until 30 Jan 18. She was based at Falmouth (HMS DREEL CASTLE) from 27 Jan 17. Skipper Culling was a 62-year old Londonderry man, in the RNR since Sep 14.

Edited 7 August , 2019 by horatio2

[MKC]

Well done horatio2!

 

Good result thinking outside the box.

 

The expertise on this forum is amazing.

 

Mike

[seaJane]

Great stuff h2!

[rolt968]

3 hours ago, horatio2 said:

I believe the skipper to have been James Culling, 380.WSA, RNR.

I took a pot at the skipper having been awarded a DSC for the action. and four skippers were listed under "Honours for Services in Action with Enemy Submarines" in LG 30536 dated 19 Feb 1918. Of these four, Skipper Culling was appointed to HMS BEN LAWERS on 21 Aug 17 until 30 Jan 18. She was based at Falmouth (HMS DREEL CASTLE) from 27 Jan 17. Skipper Culling was a 62-year old Londonderry man, in the RNR since Sep 14.

Well done! (I tried the newspapers but got nothing.)

[Michael Lowrey]

horatio2, great find! Thank you very much. The other three RNR skippers awarded the DSC on February 19, 1918 were involved in destroying the grounded U 48 on November 24, 1917.

[Guest]

On 06/08/2019 at 23:17, Michael Lowrey said:

Early on December 9, 1917, HMT Ben Lawers was escorting a coal convey to France when it sighted a submarine at short rage in front it, which it proceeded to ram. The armed trawler's victim was the UB 18.

 

Simple question: who was Ben Lawers commanding office at the time?

captain James Cullen RNVR from kingston upon Hull

[Falloden]

On 07/08/2019 at 16:08, Michael Lowrey said:

horatio2, great find! Thank you very much. The other three RNR skippers awarded the DSC on February 19, 1918 were involved in destroying the grounded U 48 on November 24, 1917.

 

Coincidentally U-48 had been rammed in the conning tower by the sinking "East Point" in March 1917.  Although she survived and returned to Germany for repairs her commander and navigator were killed in the incident.  My grandfather, Harold James Young, master of "East Point" had already earned his DSC at Gallipoli. 

[Guest]

Bit of a late reply but the answer to your question is skipper James Cullen. He is my great great grandfather, I have attached some news article, and a picture of a Gurkha knife that was given to him by a crew from a ship that he helped in distress. My family described him as a nice man with a good sense of whit, he did seem to suffer in the war losing 4 sons, only 1 of his sons and his daughter (my great grandmother) survived the war. Hope this helps

Edited 11 January , 2021 by Guest

[horatio2]

Welcome to the GWF, Millie2408.

Something odd here. There is no James CULLEN listed as an RNR skipper in either the RNR service records or in the Admiralty Medal Roll. Nor can I find a James CULLEN as recipient of the DSC - and no sign of a Bar to the DSC, as reported.

The only RNR James CULL****  p.o.b. Londonderry is Skipper James CULLING 380.WSA  https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8585386

Did your GGF change his name from CULLING to CULLEN at some time after WW1?

 

Edited 12 January , 2021 by horatio2

[Guest]

Hi, when I started researching him I noticed the same thing, at the time I spoke to my Nan about it and she did confirm that he did change his name from culling to Cullen after the war, but not a clue why. There was also a list of his medals from the local museum where they are held and they reference both spellings, quite puzzling  🙂

[KizmeRD]

As h2 has already stated, Skipper James Culling RNR(T) WSA 380 was born in Londonderry in 1855 and subsequently (prior to WW1) he moved to Hull. His DSC was gazetted 22.2.18.

Edited 12 January , 2021 by KizmeRD

[horatio2]

Thank you for posting the Oxford material and for confirming the surname change; noting that his WW1 trio of medals was issued to him under CULLING.

A few other notes, which may tally with your research:-

1.  The newspaper cutting  states that "..he joined the Navy long before the war."  His record does not support this. He enrolled in the RNR on 27 September 1914, after the outbreak of WW1.

2.  The newspaper repeats the Oxford listing of a Bar to his DSC (although there is no Bar but a Rosette). There is no evidence of your GGF receving a Bar to his DSC - not in the London Gazette nor elsewhere. Similarly, I cannot trace the award of a French Croix de Guerre, although foreign awards can be very difficult. Importantly, his RNR record, which notes his February 1918 DSC, does not mention an earlier (apparently 1917) Croix de Guerre or a second (1918) DSC award. I am very sceptical about both of these.

[Fanflame]

On 11/01/2021 at 20:16, Millie2408 said:

Bit of a late reply but the answer to your question is skipper James Cullen. He is my great great grandfather, I have attached some news article, and a picture of a Gurkha knife that was given to him by a crew from a ship that he helped in distress. My family described him as a nice man with a good sense of whit, he did seem to suffer in the war losing 4 sons, only 1 of his sons and his daughter (my great grandmother) survived the war. Hope this helps

Hi Millie,

I was just researching the Trawler Ben Lawes which my Great Grandfather (by marriage) served on and found your post very moving. It is wonderful to read stories like this and to think back upon all that these men did in their lives! Again thank you for sharing.

Fanflame