Soldier's Pension for a deceased unmarried man - was one payable?

[Matlock1418]

Would the NoK (probably parents, or failing that any siblings, I guess) get a pension paid for a son/brother who died when single/unmarried/divorced/widowered and without chldren or other direct dependants?

or

Only a War Gratuity as commonly seen on Soldier's Effects?

or

...???

Edited 24 September , 2019 by Matlock1418

[Mark1959]

The WFA Pension Ledger Cards provide interesting insight on this. Some show pensions being paid usually to widowed mothers. So there may have  been a restriction that the person benefitting had to be financially dependent on the deceased soldier, Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can point you in the direction of the regs. 

Edited 6 August , 2019 by Mark1959

[PRC]

 

55 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Would the NoK (probably parents, or failing that any siblings, I guess) get a pension paid for a son/brother who died when single/unmarried/divorced/widowered and without chldren or other direct dependants?

or

Only a War Gratuity as commonly seen on Soldier's Effects?

or

...???

 

I can't quote you chapter and verse, but it looks like anyone who was financially dependant on the deceased soldier could make a claim. Going on the better set of surviving paperwork available at the Australian and Canadian National Archives, the first hurdle seemed to be whether any allocation was being made from the soldier's pay to the individual concerned or to someone else for the benefit of the individual concerned, (a younger sibling being cared for by non-relatives was one I came across).

 

Following on from that it was means tested - if a soldier was paying for his board & keep which in the circumstances would be no longer appropriate, then the pension claim would fail. But if it went beyond that and the individual did not have the income to make good the shortfall, e.g.. pay the rent, then the pension was a definate possibility. It would also be paid for life, while for a dependant child of which the soldier was the father it would end at 16.

 

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can give you the regulations on this - I'd be fascinated to know.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[tullybrone]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

Would the NoK (probably parents, or failing that any siblings, I guess) get a pension paid for a son/brother who died when single/unmarried/divorced/widowered and without chldren or other direct dependants?

or

Only a War Gratuity as commonly seen on Soldier's Effects?

or

...???

 

Hi,

 

2 of my unmarried great uncle’s were KIA on the Somme. On their WFA pension records - Their widowed mother was paid a pension until her death in 1920 at which time a disabled brother made a successful pension claim.

 

Steve

[RussT]

I've been wondering about this myself ..

 

I have a great uncle (single, no children) who died and whose WFA pension ledger record shows a pension gratuity being paid to his youngest sister.

[ss002d6252]

A person could make a claim if they were financially dependent on the deceased soldier.  I have the rules, which varied over time, and can post a summary tomorrow if anyone is interested.

 

Craig

[RussT]

Thanks Craig. A summary would be highly informative and valuable.

 

Russ

[Matlock1418]

This thread is going down the line I had perhaps expected - dependancy required.

 

As always, much obliged for all replies.

 

The background:

I was looking at the pension records of a married man (KiA) and then seeking those for his three single and childless nephews (KiA).

 

Whilst I could find the pension record for the man (widow and children) I couldn't find anything for his nephews - ???

I suspected I had been rather mistakenly seeking the last in a vain cause.

 

Two nephews had both parents living, but not seemingly dependant upon them, and the third's parents had both died much previously and he had no dependant siblings [all alive but over 20 and able-bodied] - hence no pension(s) paid/found.

 

??? However might the first two nephews' parent(s) and/or the third nephew's living, but non-dependant, sibling(s) perhaps have made a claim(s) but been rejected - would such a claim(s) be available?

 

As for the Pension Records now available via the WFA - well done the WFA - many thanks to all who put in such a lot of effort. :-)  :-)

 

10 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

A person could make a claim if they were financially dependent on the deceased soldier.  I have the rules, which varied over time, and can post a summary tomorrow if anyone is interested.

 

Craig

 

I too would very much appreciate a summary - many thanks.

:-)

Matlock

Edited 7 August , 2019 by Matlock1418

[ss002d6252]

I'll pop something up later when I've finally managed to get this decorating done (ahhhh!)

 

In respect of rejected claims some are to be found in the surviving records, some aren't. The surviving records cover only a relatively short period of time and many have been weeded out, unfortunately.

 

Craig

[rolt968]

I don't know if  this any help. The aged widowed grandfather of one of the casualties I am researching successfully applied for a pension. The man lost both his parents when he was very young and was brought up by his grandparents.

 

RM

[ss002d6252]

Hogge provide a good summary as of 1918 ish

https://archive.org/details/thewarpensionsallow00hoggrich/page/130

 

It is stated that "A dependant is, in the amended warrant, defined as a person who would, in the case of a deceased soldier, have been wholly or partially maintained by him had he not been prevented from contributing by circumstances beyond his control".

 

The new warrant, which was 1918, covers a wider range than the old warrant - part 12(d), 12(e) and 14 cover the cases for dependants who aren't parents. The key was that the dependant needed to show that they were financially dependant on the soldier and they needed the alternative support that a pension would provide in lieu of what the soldier previously provided.

 

Craig

 

 

[ss002d6252]

5 hours ago, rolt968 said:

I don't know if  this any help. The aged widowed grandfather of one of the casualties I am researching successfully applied for a pension. The man lost both his parents when he was very young and was brought up by his grandparents.

 

RM

They would probably qualify under part 13 above and be regarded as his parents. How much were they awarded ?

Craig

[Matlock1418]

5 hours ago, rolt968 said:

I don't know if  this any help. The aged widowed grandfather of one of the casualties I am researching successfully applied for a pension. The man lost both his parents when he was very young and was brought up by his grandparents.

 

RM

 

40 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

They would probably qualify under part 13 above and be regarded as his parents.

 

51 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

Hogge provide a good summary as of 1918 ish

Thanks for these (and for all other's thoughts too)

 

Interesting, but I'm not sure in the case of the third 'orphaned' nephew who was brought up by an uncle for a while pre-war and possibly living with him when he enlisted and when he died - Uncle had served in UK and came out with a SWB, ill-health not attributable to service but aggrevated by it, but I can't make a case for dependency at the moment

• Addendum - his Soldier's Effects, including War Gratuity, where shared equally amongst his 4 siblings

 

And so the search goes on ...

Matlock

Edited 7 August , 2019 by Matlock1418
Addendum

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, Matlock1418 said:

 

 

Thanks for these (and for all other's thoughts too)

 

Interesting, but I'm not sure in the case of the third 'orphaned' nephew who was brought up by an uncle for a while pre-war and possibly living with him when he enlisted and when he died - Uncle had served in UK and came out with a SWB, ill-health not attributable to service but aggrevated by it, but I can't make a case for dependency at the moment 

 

And so the search goes on ...

Matlock

If a pension was paid to a dependant then they had to have shown the relevant dependency at the time of application in order to claim - they would need to make a claim and provide the relevant proofs. If they could show that they had been dependent and they needed the support, then they could qualify

 

Craig

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

If a pension was paid to a dependant then they had to have shown the relevant dependency at the time of application in order to claim - they would need to make a claim and provide the relevant proofs. If they could show that they had been dependent and they needed the support, then they could qualify

 

Thanks Craig, on the ball as usual and very fast - as per my Addendum which crossed with yours, his siblings picked up his Effects and War Gratuity but I don't think any dependancy by them (brothers, though two having 'minor' disabilities from service with CEF, or sister who got married very soon after the war) or his uncle

[rolt968]

3 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

They would probably qualify under part 13 above and be regarded as his parents. How much were they awarded ?

Craig

I will go back to my notes and find out. It may take a day or so.

[rolt968]

On ‎07‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 20:59, rolt968 said:

I will go back to my notes and find out. It may take a day or so.

I have sent you a PM.

RM

[Matlock1418]

On 07/08/2019 at 18:10, ss002d6252 said:

If a pension was paid to a dependant then they had to have shown the relevant dependency at the time of application in order to claim - they would need to make a claim and provide the relevant proofs. If they could show that they had been dependent and they needed the support, then they could qualify

 

On 07/08/2019 at 12:15, rolt968 said:

I don't know if  this any help. The aged widowed grandfather of one of the casualties I am researching successfully applied for a pension. The man lost both his parents when he was very young and was brought up by his grandparents.

 

My OP and consequential replies set me up nicely to do more hunting - thanks to all, also ... 

 

Many thanks to the Western Front Association - Pension Cards are now available / have just recently been released [in addition to the previously-available Pension Ledgers from the WFA] - even if there is no corresponding Ledger entry the Cards can prove even more informative.  Thanks WFA.  Though can open up more questions ... !!!

 

Researching the two unmarried soldier brothers mentioned in the posts above I note:

[apologies - please note full pension reference numbers not given in full here - now all ending here as # ]

 

= Two brothers (both KiA in 1915 (20yo) and 1916 (24yo) respectively) resulted in an apparently joint pension to their mother [who was also recorded by both as NoK, even though their working father was alive] of 10/6 (10s/6d) a week from 6.11.18 - From Cards only [no Ledger records available but seem to be Ledger-referenced 11/D/6892_] 

I guess they felt their father had an income and she potentially did not if their father died) - [Pension figure only recorded on the first fatality's Card but both names and their parents cross-referenced on each card]

• Pension was awarded under Article 21(1e) = What is this Article please?
• The death of their mother, predeceasing their father, is recorded on both cards but I am not sure if he continued to receive the pension - Would it have transferred? [Until his death three years later?]

I am also really struggling to find Ledger 11/ both for Deceased [11/D ...] and Widows [11/A.P.W and 11/W ... - as also seen on their aunt's Widow's Ledger entry - see also below] - 11/ seems to have gone missing - 'weeded'?

• any ideas anyone on 11/ ?

Likewise recorded on both cards "Case No. B.1#" [all struck through], "DBK 65#" [all struck through] and "UH.006#"

• Do these reveal any possible further sources and/or outcomes?

= Likewise mentioned above their unmarried cousin (KiA 1918) also has a Card [no Ledger] but although a Dependant is recorded no pension details are given.

Interestingly the dependant recorded is his widowed aunt [who had two young sons - her husband having been KiA 1914 (33yo)] and not his adoptive aunt/uncle [father's brother / SWB veteran] who had raised him when he was earlier orphaned [nor his sister who was given as NoK on Attestation, nor his three brothers and sister who equally shared his effects and War Gratuity] - one wonders exactly how this pension nomination was arrived at, though presumably from some prior indication from him before death [not found a Will]???

• Or could the wider family have made this pension nomination after his death?
• Does the absence of pension details indicate that no eligibility was determined and thus no pension was actually paid?

This card has the references "Case No. D.P. 50##" and "DDG 466#"

• Do these reveal any possible further sources and/or outcomes?

In hope please ...

Matlock

Edited 24 September , 2019 by Matlock1418

[ss002d6252]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

 

 

My OP and consequential replies set me up nicely to do more hunting - thanks to all, also ... 

 

Many thanks to the Western Front Association - Pension Cards are now available / have just recently been released [in addition to the previously-available Pension Ledgers from the WFA] - even if there is no corresponding Ledger entry the Cards can prove even more informative.  Thanks WFA.  Though can open up more questions ... !!!

 

Researching the two unmarried soldier brothers mentioned in the posts above I note:

[apologies - please note full pension reference numbers not given in full here - now all ending here as # ]

 

= Two brothers (both KiA in 1915 (20yo) and 1916 (24yo) respectively) resulted in an apparently joint pension to their mother [who was also recorded by both as NoK, even though their working father was alive] of 10/6 (10s/6d) a week from 6.11.18 - From Cards only [no Ledger records available but seem to be Ledger-referenced 11/D/6892_] 

I guess they felt their father had an income and she potentially did not if their father died) - [Pension figure only recorded on the first fatality's Card but both names and their parents cross-referenced on each card]

• Pension was awarded under Article 21(1e) = What is this Article please?
• The death of their mother, predeceasing their father, is recorded on both cards but I am not sure if he continued to receive the pension - Would it have transferred? [Until his death three years later?]

I am also really struggling to find Ledger 11/ both for Deceased [11/D ...] and Widows [11/A.P.W and 11/W ... - as also seen on their aunt's Widow's Ledger entry - see also below] - 11/ seems to have gone missing - 'weeded'?

• any ideas anyone on 11/ ?

Likewise recorded on both cards "Case No. B.1#" [all struck through], "DBK 65#" [all struck through] and "UH.006#"

• Do these reveal any possible further sources and/or outcomes?

= Likewise mentioned above their unmarried cousin (KiA 1918) also has a Card [no Ledger] but although a Dependant is recorded no pension details are given.

Interestingly the dependant recorded is his widowed aunt [who had two young sons - her husband having been KiA 1914 (33yo)] and not his adoptive aunt/uncle [father's brother / SWB veteran] who had raised him when he was earlier orphaned [nor his sister who was given as NoK on Attestation, nor his three brothers and sister who equally shared his effects and War Gratuity] - one wonders exactly how this pension nomination was arrived at, though presumably from some prior indication from him before death [not found a Will]???

• Or could the wider family have made this pension nomination after his death?
• Does the absence of pension details indicate that no eligibility was determined and thus no pension was actually paid?

This card has the references "Case No. D.P. 50##" and "DDG 466#"

• Do these reveal any possible further sources and/or outcomes?

In hope please ...

Matlock

When I get home I'll take a look and post the relevant part of the regulations etc.

 

Craig