Royal Munster Fusilier 10506 Richard Hampson Cheeseman

[le grand fromage]

2 hours ago, sadbrewer said:

Aside from his WW1 service, did he live in London in his later years?

Yes, the family home was in West Norwood London and he lived the rest of his day's in the area. I was fortunate that most of my Grandad's brothers and sister still lived in the West Norwood area in my early years so got to know them all in their later years. I can even tell you we were sitting in the Rosemary pub (not there now but was next door to West Norwood bus garage) where he mentioned about landing from the River Clyde. I knew of the River Clyde then as I use to spend a lot of my time roaming around the Imperial War Museum and they used to have an unusual diorama of the River Clyde, in that it was only 2 dimensional ie the soldiers were paper thin.

[le grand fromage]

2 hours ago, RedCoat said:

From what you've written above, it's clear that he didn't land on the 25/04/1915.

If his Service Records, MIC, Medal Rolls etc say he was posted to 3 RMF on the 02/06/1915 and then to 1 RMF on the 17/07/1915 I don't understand how he could have landed on the first day?

As I wrote above, I believe that some of the dates on his military record are incorrect and at the moment I care to believe the 'Family Lore', his verbal words to me and his written word that he did land from the River Clyde.

I think if I can close these 2 queries out below with satisfactory reasons I might start thinking that he did'nt but until then will keep looking.

Know why his embarkation from the UK is not on his documents?

Know why there is nearly a 9 month gap between his posting to 6 R R Cav R and his posting to 3 RMF?

 

[FROGSMILE]

I’m afraid that’s a lot of wishful thinking. So many different records are unlikely to all be wrong purely because it doesn’t chime with a narrative written many years after the war.  A combination of genuine events can easily be conflated with others over time when an old man’s memories fade, or become mixed up. 

Edited 12 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[ss002d6252]

I would agree with Frogsmile. At the moment it's a choice between the narrative and the official records and, as much as it makes for an exciting story, it's more likely that the official records are the correct ones.

Can you post scans of the records you have as it would help.

Craig

[sadbrewer]

3 hours ago, le grand fromage said:

Yes, the family home was in West Norwood London and he lived the rest of his day's in the area. I was fortunate that most of my Grandad's brothers and sister still lived in the West Norwood area in my early years so got to know them all in their later years. I can even tell you we were sitting in the Rosemary pub (not there now but was next door to West Norwood bus garage) where he mentioned about landing from the River Clyde. I knew of the River Clyde then as I use to spend a lot of my time roaming around the Imperial War Museum and they used to have an unusual diorama of the River Clyde, in that it was only 2 dimensional ie the soldiers were paper thin.

Just to let you know he had a bit of trouble whilst working for Harvey Nichols in the 1960's.  It's not within the scope of this forum so I won't post it here...if it's of interest send me a PM and I'll give you the info.

Edit...in 1937 he received an award from London Transport for his bus driving.

Edited 12 January , 2022 by sadbrewer

[corisande]

It is one of the positives or indeed negatives when someone has a unique name like Richard Hampson Cheeseman, that these sorts of facts can be obtained. For a plain John Smith it would be impossible to know you had the correct man.

 

 

[le grand fromage]

7 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

I would agree with Frogsmile. At the moment it's a choice between the narrative and the official records and, as much as it makes for an exciting story, it's more likely that the official records are the correct ones.

Can you post scans of the records you have as it would help.

Craig

Ha, I understand what everyone is saying but it doesn't cost me to try and who knows, I could be right. What I do know is I'll learn some new stuff about WW1 on the journey.

As requested I've attached  the applicable part of his service record covering the period he was out in Gallipoli, Due to file size I'll also attached his memoires (original copy) and a type written 'deciphered' copy of his memoires for the same period, separately

[le grand fromage]

As mentioned previously here is my Great Uncles original memoires copy, sorry for the quality but I think its a copy of a copy and a type written 'deciphered' transcript of the same memoire, with gaps where we can't decipher his hand writing.

Needed to upload the deciphered transcript seperately

 

[RedCoat]

You could try to look up the service records for men who enlisted with him. He may have been part of a sizeable draft from 6th Reserve Cavalry Regiment to 3 RMF - in which case, you may find a pattern. 

[corisande]

For the benefit of anyone following the thread, the timeline is. His written account is interesting (and difficult to read!)

1915 Apr 29 . 1st RMF land at Helles

1915 Apr 27 to May 19 . The Dubsters are in existence

1915 Jul 17 Cheeseman posted to 1 RMF

1915 Jul 31 Cheeseman lands Gallipoli

1915 Sep 21 Cheeseman in Hospital in Gallipoli for 3 days

1915 Nov 26 Cheeseman in Hospital in Gallipoli

1915 Dec 2 Cheeseman in Hospital in Mudros

1915 Dec 26 Cheeseman shipped back to UK

1916 Jan 1 1st RMF leave Gallipoli for Salonica

 

His written account that you have transcribed appears to say that his battalion (that is 1st RMF) was sent to "help out" the 6th RMF at Suvla Bay. ^th RMF were at Suvla from  7 August 1915 to 2 October 1915 when they moved to Salonica. I think I have read your transcription correctly as he talks about joining the fighting over Chocolate Hill

Someone with better knowledge of Gallipoli than I needs to pronounce authoritatively , but as far as I know, the 1st RMF were never used to reinforce the 6th RMF at Suvla

 

[le grand fromage]

12 hours ago, RedCoat said:

You could try to look up the service records for men who enlisted with him. He may have been part of a sizeable draft from 6th Reserve Cavalry Regiment to 3 RMF - in which case, you may find a pattern. 

Yep thanks, its on my list of things to do, down at the bottom and also look for RMF's with a similar regt number

[le grand fromage]

26 minutes ago, corisande said:

For the benefit of anyone following the thread, the timeline is. His written account is interesting (and difficult to read!)

1915 Apr 29 . 1st RMF land at Helles

1915 Apr 27 to May 19 . The Dubsters are in existence

1915 Jul 17 Cheeseman posted to 1 RMF

1915 Jul 31 Cheeseman lands Gallipoli

1915 Sep 21 Cheeseman in Hospital in Gallipoli for 3 days

1915 Nov 26 Cheeseman in Hospital in Gallipoli

1915 Dec 2 Cheeseman in Hospital in Mudros

1915 Dec 26 Cheeseman shipped back to UK

1916 Jan 1 1st RMF leave Gallipoli for Salonica

 

His written account that you have transcribed appears to say that his battalion (that is 1st RMF) was sent to "help out" the 6th RMF at Suvla Bay. ^th RMF were at Suvla from  7 August 1915 to 2 October 1915 when they moved to Salonica. I think I have read your transcription correctly as he talks about joining the fighting over Chocolate Hill

Someone with better knowledge of Gallipoli than I needs to pronounce authoritatively , but as far as I know, the 1st RMF were never used to reinforce the 6th RMF at Suvla

 

Thanks for your efforts, yes it is difficult to read, hence the 'deciphered' transcript which is ongoing.

I don't want to get off topic but having a brief look historically what he wrote, the only 'mistakes' I found atm are the reference to the 'Warspite', which I don't think was there and the reference to 'Red Farm' which I can't find anything on.

With your query on reinforcing at Suvla I had previously found this, note 1RMF were part of the 29th Division:

http://historyhub.ie/the-irish-at-gallipoli-episode-5-august-offensive-suvla-bay

"The plight of the Irishmen was not helped when, in the middle of the battle, their divisional commander, Lieutenant General Bryan Mahon, resigned in a fit of pique, after he was passed over for promotion to corps commander following Sir Ian Hamilton’s sacking of General Stopford on 15 August.

Six days later, units of the 29th Division, including its three Irish battalions, the Dublin Fusiliers, the Munster Fusiliers and the Inniskilling Fusiliers, which had been brought up from Helles to reinforce the New Army troops at Suvla, suffered badly at Scimitar Hill, which had been taken but abandoned on the first day. During the battle, the continuous shelling set the undergrowth ablaze and many of the wounded were burnt alive where they had fallen. At one point the Inniskilling Fusiliers managed to capture the summit, but were forced to withdrew when they drew heavy fire from the Turks on the Anafarta ridge. Having failed to dislodge the Turks from Scimitar Hill, the action was called off with more than a third of the attacking force, some 5300 men, having been killed or wounded.

Please also note that in your timeline you have a mistake in the landing of 1RMF at Helles. They landed on the 25th April not the 29th. That's the sort of mistake that I'm hoping is in his official docs ;-))

[le grand fromage]

17 hours ago, corisande said:

It is one of the positives or indeed negatives when someone has a unique name like Richard Hampson Cheeseman, that these sorts of facts can be obtained. For a plain John Smith it would be impossible to know you had the correct man.

 

 

Yes it has helped although I have found several 'variation's' of it being used when searching for him! We believe it was his dad's best mate in the Royal Dragoon's name, I know my father did a bit of research in trying to find the truth of that but never has.

[le grand fromage]

Does anyone have access or can tell me where I can find the Enlistment register for 1st Battn RMF as I've stumbled on a website that suggests my Great Uncles number 10506 would have been issued Feb/Mar 1915. Last paragraph is the one of interest.

 

 

 

 

[ss002d6252]

9 minutes ago, le grand fromage said:

Does anyone have access or can tell me where I can find the Enlistment register for 1st Battn RMF as I've stumbled on a website that suggests my Great Uncles number 10506 would have been issued Feb/Mar 1915. Last paragraph is the one of interest.

 

 

 

 

Not sure if the original registers exist still but Paul's website is usually spot on.

Craig