ASC Number Prefixes 2019

[Gardenerbill]

Thanks to Ken for an excellent summary.

Are we all agreed with the conclusion that the intention was to align with the new armies however in practice the evidence suggests it became impractical and no link can be assumed. 

[Ron Clifton]

I'm happy to go along with that.

 

Ron

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Good work kenf,

Yes it looks as though the intent was there, but that events got in the way.

 

2 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 Had to post the tables as jpg

You can attach Excel spreadsheets if you convert them to .csv first.

(Something to do with the site not allowing file types that allow macros).

[kenf48]

2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

 

You can attach Excel spreadsheets if you convert them to .csv first.

(Something to do with the site not allowing file types that allow macros).

 

Thanks for the tip

 

Ken

[jay dubaya]

Very interesting discussion folks, it certainly has more depth than Michael Young’s book and I couldn’t agree more regarding the prefix system collapsing under the number of enlistments in such a short space of time

 

J

[Gardenerbill]

There is another prefix that causes some confusion: DM2. According to Mike Young these are Learner drivers, however the prefix stays with them after their driver training is complete. I think it would be more accurate to call them ASC trained drivers. Any thoughts?

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, Gardenerbill said:

There is another prefix that causes some confusion: DM2. According to Mike Young these are Learner drivers, however the prefix stays with them after their driver training is complete. I think it would be more accurate to call them ASC trained drivers. Any thoughts?

I've seen some men who were clearly able to drive before they were given a DM2 prefix.

 

I think your right in that they were learners in as far as they were being trained to ASC specifics rather than just day to day driving.

 

There was a thread some time ago with a new former member where it was discussed. If I remember rightly I came across some existing lorry drivers and electricians given DM2 prefixes.

 

Craig

[Gardenerbill]

Wasn't this because some men claimed they could drive when they couldn't or were very poor drivers and so the ASC treated them all as learners.

[ss002d6252]

17 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said:

Wasn't this because some men claimed they could drive when they couldn't or were very poor drivers and so the ASC treated them all as learners.

Quite possibly, perhaps there was some form of basic trade test.

This man is interesting though

 

Enlisted June 1914 to the West Lancs Divisional T&S Column as M/1093. He was a fitter at the vulcan rubber works.

 

Discharged from the West Lancs to join the ASC in Nov 1915 and sent to Osterley Park.

In Jan 1916

 

Even better is the attached declaration (which I've never seen before) that he was signing up as a learner and that, if he did not qualify as a driver, he would be transferred out
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f007291730%2f00313&parentid=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f7291730%2f15%2f288

 

Later records for him often drop the D from the prefix

 

Craig

[Gardenerbill]

Interesting, looks like the DM2 was pre-stamped.

[Waggoner]

Then, there are the unusual ones! For examples:

 

C(AT) = C class reserve, A = pre-war reservist, horse transport? One CAT soldier was with the 1st Cav DSC...a mechanized unit!

 

MR = Mission to Russia

 

SR = South Russia?

 

TR =  Horse transport Russia? (T/Russia on medal roll)

 

So far, I have identified 63 different prefixes and have examples of 49 of them. New prefixes keep turning up although less frequently now. I almost had a new one today on the National Archives site - SR1.  However, when I cross referenced on Ancestry, it was actually a poorly written M1.  

Edited 6 August , 2019 by Waggoner

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

13 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

I've seen some men who were clearly able to drive before they were given a DM2 prefix.

My grandfather got his car driving livence in early 1915, and was at the time employed demonstrating steam traction engines on farms.

He was given a DM2 number.

[Waggoner]

I guess this thread has run its course. Too bad, it was very interesting! 

 

To revive the M1/M2 discussion, my M2 soldier was a stationary engineer in an electrical plant before enlisting. This adds credence to the theory that M1s were drivers and M2s were electricians. 

 

All the best,

 

Gary

[ss002d6252]

7 hours ago, Waggoner said:

I guess this thread has run its course. Too bad, it was very interesting! 

 

To revive the M1/M2 discussion, my M2 soldier was a stationary engineer in an electrical plant before enlisting. This adds credence to the theory that M1s were drivers and M2s were electricians. 

 

All the best,

 

Gary

There were certainly electricians amongst them but a quick sample of 8 records shows,

 

M1/594 - Motor driver
M1/1819 - Mechanic
M1/1846 - Motor engineer
M1/1894 - Motor mechanic

 

M2/1508 - Motor driver
M2/1797 - Mechanic
M2/1905 - Driver
M2/1921 - Motor lorry driver

 

 

Craig

[Gardenerbill]

Hi Gary, from September 1914 to November 1916, the majority of MT men had the M2 prefix regardless of their trade so not specifically electricians. 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

51 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said:

Hi Gary, from September 1914 to November 1916, the majority of MT men had the M2 prefix regardless of their trade so not specifically electricians. 

Yes, that's the way I see it too from the many service records I've read.

[Jim Strawbridge]

I have quite a few A.S.C. medals and take the opportunity to list the prefixes on them here. Nearly all of them will be well known to collectors and researchers but I am just sharing the resource.

 

A,  AHT,  CHT,  CMT,  DM2, M,  M1,  M1SR,  M2,  MR,  MS,  NAC,  PETROL,  RTS,  RX4,  S,  S1,  S2,  S4,  S1SR,  SR,  SS,  T,  T1,  T1SR,   T2,  T3,  T4,  TS,  WT4

 

I don't collect to either A.S.C. or prefixes in particular - for instance, there must be an S3 - but just sharing in case there is something there of interest.

[ss002d6252]

S3 was used from October 1914 from what I can see - looks like it may have continued on numerically from the S2 prefix.

Craig

[Gardenerbill]

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

S3 was used from October 1914 from what I can see - looks like it may have continued on numerically from the S2 prefix.

Craig

I would agree with that Craig.

[Waggoner]

Thank you all for your very interesting inputs! Here is the list of prefixes that I have identified:

 

M, R, S, T, A, A(HT), B(HT), C(HT), C(MT), C(AT), T1SR, T2SR, M1SR, M2SR, S1SR, S2SR, MS, SS, TS, RS, RTS, T1-4, S1-4, M1, M2, DM2, F, E, PET, Canteen (A, B, E, CA, NAC ), SA, T1SA, T2SA, S1SA, S2SA, MR, SR, TR, Wt4, ST4, R3, GS, TF, SE, R, M, S, T, (after 1916), TSC, EM, ES, ER, ET

 

I feel confident that there are still some more to be found!

 

All the best,

 

Gary

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

7 hours ago, Waggoner said:

M, R, S, T, A, A(HT), B(HT), C(HT), C(MT), C(AT), T1SR, T2SR, M1SR, M2SR, S1SR, S2SR, MS, SS, TS, RS, RTS, T1-4, S1-4, M1, M2, DM2, F, E, PET, Canteen (A, B, E, CA, NAC ), SA, T1SA, T2SA, S1SA, S2SA, MR, SR, TR, Wt4, ST4, R3, GS, TF, SE, R, M, S, T, (after 1916), TSC, EM, ES, ER, ET

 

I still don't understand DM2.

Learners?

Why DM2?

Why not something with an L?

[Gardenerbill]

I thinks it's Driver, they kept the prefix after training.

[ss002d6252]

1 hour ago, Gardenerbill said:

I thinks it's Driver, they kept the prefix after training.

Hadn't thought about it but it makes sense - also indicates who was trained by the ASC to drive and who wasn't.
 

Craig

[david west]

One of the members of this Forum commented about a Soldier i was researching,  a Soldier from the ASC that had the prefix ET in front of his service number - ET meaning Horse Transport (post war ?) can you confirm this ?

 

David

[Gardenerbill]

ASC MY p240 has:

 

EM - Mechanical Transport

ER - Remounts

ES - Supply

ET - Horse Transport

 

After War - Army Re-enlistment under AO 4/19