Midleton Memorial tiff

[Jervis]

Interesting story:   East Cork two guys believe the relatively new Midleton great war memorial is riddled with errors. (Missing Names and includes many incorrect soldiers)

 

What is odd about the article, is they give an example of someone who should not be on the Midleton memorial i.e. the Mauritius born John Sparling. Then it is mentioned that John’s father was the local coast guard and John and his Irish wife resided in the town for a period and he is buried in nearby Cobh. All of which in my mind establishes John’s connection with the area and justifies his name on the memorial. (Am I missing something?)

Edited 3 August , 2019 by Jervis

[Jervis]

A check on the 1911 census shows Mauritius born John Sparling working as the Coast Guard in Ballycotton. Sparling 1911

Edited 3 August , 2019 by Jervis

[corisande]

"Genealogist Paul Busteed "

 

I wonder if he is related to Frank Busteed, who presided over many of the Cork executions in 1920/21

[corisande]

It is interesting when you read the end of the newspaper article

 

He said while he was not “defending anything” the committee had a “Monument honouring 200 men living, born or connected with the East Cork area who were all killed in the First World War.” Mr Busteed and Mr Power believe the majority of research on Midleton was possibly based on two sources- the book “The Great Sacrifice” and the Common Wealth War Graves Commission.
While both tools are recognised as good reference points, the sources are known to have many inaccuracies as information provided by enlisted personnel was often misunderstood or inaccurate information given by those enlisting. Both documents, they say, should be confirmed with at least three other official papers such as a Birth Certificate, Census records or Military records, all of which are available to researchers.

 

It strikes me that these two men, Busteed and Power, are trying gallantly (perhaps cynically) to promote their book and not much else. If the monument committee take their reference point as men "living, born or connected with the East Cork area who were all killed in the First World War.”  Then I would think that is what appears to be on the memorial, not altering it to reflect a different criteria that Busteed and Power have elected to use

 

It would be interesting to know if the two men have a genuine concern about the wrong names being on the memorial, and some correct names being omitted. Or whether they really do not like the appearance of these memorials across Ireland  in present times, and particularly in Cork

 

 

[ss002d6252]

I'd wonder how the names compare to Tom's work on the Irish war dead.

Craig

[Jervis]

2 hours ago, corisande said:

 

It would be interesting to know if the two men have a genuine concern about the wrong names being on the memorial, and some correct names being omitted. Or whether they really do not like the appearance of these memorials across Ireland  in present times, and particularly in Cork

 

 

 

Well I do hope it is the former. As you say we will have to wait to see “the book” for more information on the errors. Although given the one example given to the press it does not bode well. 

 

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

I'd wonder how the names compare to Tom's work on the Irish war dead.

Craig

 

There is a mention in the article of input from WW1 research centre at Camden Fort Meagher, so perhaps Tom had some involvement. 

Edited 3 August , 2019 by Jervis

[museumtom]

At least one of these, Gordon Power is a member of the Irish Great War Society.

I have been following this and the one thing that is missing is establishing the criteria for inclusion. I see Camden Fort Meagher mentioned in the article but I was not asked to assist with the memorial or names. The man Sparling was born in Mauritus, but lived in Ballycotton, His wife also lived there and his address on his probate is also Ballycotton. I do know that there are some names missing but I would not have mentioned that anywhere as it is not my place to do so. 

[ss002d6252]

3 minutes ago, museumtom said:

I do know that there are some names missing but I would not have mentioned that anywhere as it is not my place to do so

Sometimes it's just not worth getting in to middle of the argument.
 

Quote

The man Sparling was born in Mauritus, but lived in Ballycotton, His wife also lived there and his address on his probate is also Ballycotton

 

This would get a man on to most memorials and is far less tenuous a connection than a lot of men we see.

 

Craig

[IPT]

Those two lads would get a shock if they tried researching a large English memorial.  Men with no connection to the area whose relative moved there years later, men who didn't actually die, men who didn't exist in the first place, boy scouts that died before the war etc etc

 

I suppose their lack of understanding of war memorials can be explained by geography and history, but i'd still be intrigued to know what criteria could possibly exclude Sparling.

 

 

 

 

 

[corisande]

Midleton was a particularly apt place to have a memorial to WW1 soldiers who fell.

 

During the War of Independence it was a very violent area, and being "taken from his bed and shot" was horrific and prolific, even , dare I say it, by Cork standards at that time.

 

I have been researching civilian deaths, so got to know the events quite well. The village of Carrigtwohill , with a population of 5000, is 4 or 5 kms west of Midleton, and these are the murders that occurred there over a month in 1921. The list is not comprehensive, as I have not added all executions yet

 

Against this background, it is truly remarkable that a Memorial wall has been agreed and built

 

 

1921 May 1. Michael O'Keeffe taken from his bed and shot

 

1921 May 8 . William Bransfield taken from his bed and shot

 

1921 May 14. Richard Flynn taken from his bed and shot

 

1921 May 15 Michael Ahern shot

 

1921 May 15 Edmund Macnamara shot

 

1921 May 15 Richard Barry shot (The IRA maintained that he and two Volunteers had been killed in reprisal for the IRA’s killing of members of the crown forces in Midleton on the previous day.

 

1921 May 15.Joseph Coleman, Thomas Cornyer , Harold Thompson all RIC

 

1921 May 16 . John Ryan from Woodstock, Carrigtwohill shot

 

1921 Jun 21. Daniel O'Callaghan taken from his bed and shot