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Remembered Today:

Military Cross


kemp52

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Thankyou for your help Corisande and all  in gathering information  about  PTE W, Osborn  We are now about to send off to the Bigbury  Mint an order for some Replica Medals  From the items you have shown me regarding the Medal Rolls and the Citation could one expect that his Medal entitlement would be The DCM,   The War Medal and The Victory Medal ? No mention on the Rolls about a 14 or 15 Star so would that be because the 2/4 Royal Berkshire were still at home until 1916? .Just one last question haw should the Medals read when stamped, should it read the original 2nd R.Berks  or The 2/4 R.Berks Thank you .

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Wait until you have his full service record before going nap on the replicas.  He may have served in India and acquired an IGSM or possibly in the MIddle East and got a GSM?

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Hi there,

 

the following may assist, you seem to have most of it anyway.

 

Cheers

Springer

 

 

16678 Pte W. OSBORN D.C.M. 2/4th Battalion

Royal Berkshire Regiment.

 

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. When our raiding parties were checked in their advance on the enemy trench, he crawled forward on his own initiative to reconnoitre under heavy fire. He returned and reported the situation to his Officer, and then guided an N.C.O. forward, and assisted him to blow up the enemy bomb store. But for his gallant and courageous action the party would have been unable to advance, and would have suffered many casualties from the enemy’s machine gun fire.

(L.G. 4th March 1918)

 

He came from Aldbourne, Wilts (Chilton Foliat) ?

 

War diary entry relating to the raid that lead to the award reads……

 

The raiding party of 3 officers and 60 0 Rs assembled to the North West of Whip Cross roads, in trenches Greenland hill ( The area in which the Battalion were serving was to the east of Arras near Grvrelle, Map Refrence Plouvain) The raiding party was split into three groups. Osbourne served in the centre storming party commanded by Sgt SHACKLEFORD D.C.M. . This party consisted of three bayonet men, 3 bombers and 2 intelligence men. The Battalion does not state the time of the raid but, it must have been late in the evening as the orders state that visual Signalling lamps were to be tested each hour from 5.0. P.M. to one hour before zero.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all, my cousin has not yet sent me the reply from the MOD but he says that Glasgow  did not have the Army Record of W J G Osborn even though he was serving post ww1 and in India circa 1925. Could it be passible that he may have served in the Indian Army or just the British Army in India .Where do you think we should now search ?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello everyone ,thankyou for the help and advice so far .  Yesterday my Cousin and I received a letter from the MOD Army Records office in Glasgow informing us that no records were found and that  they only had records of soldiers  who left after  Jan 1921 ..If this is true how could I find out when William J G Osborn left the Army as  Uncle says his Dad mentioned about being in Winter and Summer Stations in India circa 1924/25 etc . I cant seem to find anything on National Archives unless im doing something wrong ?

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Hi Ive received the letter from Glasgow records but they have ne record of William J G Osborn 16678 Royal Berks .They say National Archives may have a record up to 1021 or Find my Past . Can anyone help as ive no idea how to access the Archives . 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi , recently we have had a lot of help with the Military history surrounding a  Pte  William James George Osborn of Aldbourne Wiltshire  Born 1898   2nd Royal  Berks Regiment also the 1/4th and later the Dorset Regiment . We now know that he was awarded the DCM in 1918 1/4 th Regiment Royal Berks  for Gallantry in 1917 at Arras . We have searched on Ancestry and have not been able to locate a Service or Pension document < also the Medal card did not Mention the DCM  or discharge ?> . We have also sent a request to the Army Records at Glasgow but they say they have nothing but to look at the National Archives and also Find My past . Should anyone be able to look up either of these for the soldier in question I would be most grateful . We are at a loss to know his whereabouts up to 1937 where he was a Postman in Bournemouth Hampshire  and we are certain that he was in India in the 1920s . We seem certain that he may have served 22 years in the Army from 1914 to 1936 ? < otherwise why would he be in India ?> It would be of Great help if anyone could point us in the right direction for further research . Best Wishes Andy .

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Do you have a service number for him please?

And is 1898 a certain date?

 

George

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I think he is 16678 R Berks. LG says Aldbourn as home town. Annotated DCM register says for actions East of Arras 24/10/1917. LG 4/3/18. 2/4th R Berks

Records seem to be under W Osborn.

47172 Dorsets

In medal rolls under Dorsets but shows 2 R Berks and 2/4 R Berks as units

Edited by Mark1959
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Thanks Mark1959.

Not helping a great deal-nor is knowing other number as 47172 Dorsets

 

George

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2/4th War Diary for 24/10/17 says

"A raid was carried out by Capt. Reeves, Casualties 4 ORs wounded" There is a description of the raid and its outcome, including maps at the end of the month's diary. One assumes it is this raid where he won his DCM.The citation supports that view.

The location of the unit is given as Greenland Hill trenches

Nothing traced post war yet

Edited by Mark1959
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Appears in Gazette in March 1918? Seems a long while

 

George

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Ancestry has a marriage to Violet Crew in 1919 in Swindon

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=8753&h=65954272&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=7814

 

May be an error-appears to have been born in Hungerford but all names same and birthyear too.

George

Edited by George Rayner
Erroneous identification?
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Perhaps not an error as listed in 1939 Register in Bournemouth

 

George

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If he was in the service in 1920s/1930s then his records for that period would still be held by the Ministry of Defence.

 

Death William JG Osborn Bournemouth district age 69 Q 3 1967 possible.  From this you could get the death cert but you would need his date of birth and unless you have next of kin consent you will get only details as the site describes:

 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-records-of-deceased-service-personnel you do need to know which arm of the service he was in.

 

The subscription sites won't have records from that time frame.  He does not appear on the pre-1901 date of birth listings of men  who served on beyond the war.

 

Max

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2 hours ago, George Rayner said:

And is 1898 a certain date?

 

2 hours ago, kemp52 said:

Pte  William James George Osborn of Aldbourne Wiltshire  Born 1898

 

1 hour ago, George Rayner said:

May be an error-appears to have been born in Hungerford but all names same and birthyear too

 

 The birth of a William James G Osborn was registered with the civil authorities in the Hungerford Civil Registration District in the April to June quarter, (Q2), of 1898.

Even taking into account the 42 days after the event allowed for the birth to be registered, that would place the birth at some point after mid-February 1898, so it would appear the year is correct - date of birth is entirely a different matter :)

 

Of course that also assumes this wasn't a late registration for which the parents had a court appearance and paid a fine or that they deliberately concealed his true date of birth.

 

The area covered by Hungerford Civil Registration District included the civil parish of Aldbourne - Hungerford District straddled Berkshire, Wiltshire, and up until 1895 parts of Hampshire.

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/hungerford.html

 

He is on the 1901 Census of England and Wales, (31/03/1901) as aged 3 and the 1911 Census of England (02/04/1911) as 13 so that would tend to indicate a birth in late February to March.

 

Couldn't find any online records for a baptism in Wiltshire or Berkshire at freereg or familysearch - may be worth trying Ancestry & FMP.

 

BTW has anyone checked the Service Medal Rolls (Ancestry) for him - occasionally they reference ongoing service. It would also be good to see how the remarks column on the relevant page is completed - if the other (surviving) men are shown as i.e. Class Z or discharged then the absense of such a statement may well indicate he stayed in the post-war Army.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

Edited by PRC
Add "aged 13"
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There are no notes on the medal roll against his entry, others do have Z reserve (or similar) or KIA etc.  However, not found on the pre-1901 listings.  Maybe have another look.

 

Not found 

Max

Edited by MaxD
added PS
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I always find it confusing when a poster continues a previous thread without referring to it. This thread should be stitched to that one

 

 

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For PRC the 1911 census has his place of Birth as Aldbourne but he is with grandmother, as indeed 1901. I don't doubt this is the same, correct person

 

George

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Hi Chaps , firstly thankyou very much for you time and efforts as it is all very interesting .Secondly sorry for not merging as you say the two letters to the forum. Its still a new thing and one does not always know the correct way to do things  .Best wishes .Andy

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi chaps further to this story we are awaiting a document from a family member .Its the Discharge papers dated 1936 21 years service  1 st Batt Dorsetshires . He had   been serving in Solon India ,Arrival date from Malta 1926 .From a gloomy photo one can see  it says Distinguished Conduct Medal and two other others,, Clasps? 1926 to 1936 . Anyway the the records office in Glasgow  had  nothing in their records pertaining him  but he served long after the war .His date of Birth was  marked 1896 and not the truth 1898 so he did sign on early .Also the name Osborn was signed with an E  Osborne  . Would the wrong birth date and the name spelt differently  be the reason they did not find him  even though they had name rank number and Regiment  ? Any ideas on the records ? 

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