Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

Skipman

Once and for all, is it Ghazze or Ghuzze?

Recommended Posts

Skipman

I have seen both versions of the spelling from many sources, including, the Official History, The Imperial War Museum, The History of the 52nd Division, etc etc etc

 

Is it Wadi Ghazze or Wadi Ghuzze. Does it matter as long as one is consistent?

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maureene

Take your pick. It would be the British transcription of a word from another language (? Arabic) . I know nothing about the above example, but if it is anything like words in India there can be multiple variations (over five in some instances)  which were acceptable.  I think you don't even need to be consistent.

 

Cheers

Maureen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skipman
13 minutes ago, Maureene said:

  I think you don't even need to be consistent.

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

Thanks Maureen. I think I would at least have to be consistent. Probably go with Ghazze as I think it is connected to "Gaza" in some way.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ex-boy

Having just found this topic and not having heard of the campaign (my knowledge is obviously sadly deficient), I googled Ghazze and found multiple entries. When I googled Ghuzze it asked if I meant Ghazze. What more do you need than google’s approval?

 

Tongue in cheek,

 

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skipman
40 minutes ago, Ex-boy said:

 I googled Ghazze and found multiple entries. When I googled Ghuzze it asked if I meant Ghazze. What more do you need than google’s approval?

 

Tongue in cheek,

 

Steve

 

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skipman
41 minutes ago, Ex-boy said:

Having just found this topic and not having heard of the campaign (my knowledge is obviously sadly deficient),

 

 

Steve

 

I put off studying Palestine for some years, not being interested in it, but having a need to research it eventually. Dipped into  in a few months back and am absolutely fascinated with it. Extremely interesting.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ex-boy

It seems I will need to do some research then, as I hate to be found wanting.

 

And I thought I knew it all. Tongue firmly in cheek.

 

Steve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
michaeldr
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Skipman said:

 

Is it Wadi Ghazze or Wadi Ghuzze. Does it matter as long as one is consistent?

 

You can add to your collection; Ghuzzee (Allenby writing to Robertson 11 July 1917)

As you suggest, be consistent, and if necessary, point out the commonest alternative spelling in a footnote

 

best regards

Michael

Edited by michaeldr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ex-boy

Being far from home and reference books, I have made an initial foray into the campaign via Wikipedia, where the spelling is mainly Ghuzze, but also Ghuzzeh!

 

Having learnt a little Arabic in the army, I can only agree with Maureen that transliteration of Arabic words into English could have various spellings, depending on who does the work and possible local accents/dialects, so if you are happy with one variant, just go with it.

 

Steve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Donald D

In the 74th Divisional history it's called Wadi Ghuzzi.

In the 10th Battalion KSLI war diary it is Wadi Guzzee.

In the "The Battle for Palestine 1917" by John Grainger it is Wadi Ghazze.

 

You pays your money you take your choice!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skipman
Posted (edited)

In 1870's, "Wady Ghuzzeh"

 

Mike

temp Wadi Ghuzzeh.PNG

Edited by Skipman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gareth Davies

For what it is worth (very little I suspect) I use Ghuzze.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
emrezmen
Posted (edited)

Both are ok to me, but it should be "Ghazze" if you want to stick with the original. "Ghazze" comes from "Gazze/Gazzah", which is original Arabic name. "Ghuzze" is more "British".

 

Edited by emrezmen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skipman
37 minutes ago, emrezmen said:

Both are ok to me, but it should be "Ghazze" if you want to stick with the original. "Ghazze" comes from "Gazze/Gazzah", which is original Arabic name. "Ghuzze" is more "British".

 

 

Many thanks emremen. That'll do me.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eran Tearosh

To add to the confusion, in this part of the world, every part of a wadi is usually called or nicknamed in a different way - usually in connection to a physical object or phenomena, a land owner, etc'. 

 

The British map makers in the 1870's (The PEF) usually followed the local names, but Wadi Ghuzzeh is an exception. It stretches for a long distance under the same name. The Arabic name is Wadi G'aza (This G' sounds a bit like an R), see the Arabic spelling bellow - Interesting, as it reaches the Mediterranean a few kilometers west of Gaza, near Nuseirat. 

 

4955512_WadiGaza.jpg.e427663a13feb1df21520c3f0e8e5e61.jpg 

 

In Israel we relate to this water course as Bsor, but also as G'aza for the lower part. The PEF map covers the route of this water course only to the spot it splits to two: Wadi esh Shellaleh (continuing further south and south-east) and Wadi es' Seb'a (continuing further east) . 

 

Historically, Wadi G'aza was considered by some as the border of the Holy Land. Some scholars think that that is 'The river of Egypt' mentioned in the Bible, while others point at Wadi Al Arish, further west.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Eran 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skipman

Excellent Eran. Thanks as ever for the extremely interesting local knowledge.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...