Lance Corporal James O'Hare #30/257, 25th Northumberland Fusiliers

[laughton]

I will check with the expert on this one! @Tyneside Chinaman

 

If the IWGC was correct in 1922, then Lance Corporal O'Hare of the 25th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers is buried in Plot 9 Row E Grave 4 of the Cabaret Rouge British Cemetery.   He is the only Lance Corporal of the battalion for all of July and August 1916 that was lost on other than July 1st 1916 and the only one on the Arras Memorial.   By then they had moved to the Carency Sector (103rd Bde War Diary page 233 of 764).   On July 1st 1916 the battalion was near Albert.

 

Finally found the battalion war diary for July 1916 (103rd Brigade page 39 of 931). That tells us on July 1, 1916 the battalion was ordered to attack the German positions in the vicinity of La Boiselle (57d.X.14.c). It was not a good day for the battalion. They moved to Henencourt Wood (57d.V.26.b) on the 5th and left by bus to Humber Camps on the 7th, where they underwent reorganization (war diary page 44 of 931). They were on the move again by the 14th through Saulty 51c.V.7 and Houvigneul 51c.H.13. On the 15th the march resumed through Marquay 36b.T.17 to Orlencourt 36b.T.6. On the 19th they marched onward to Rebreuve and Hermin 36b.P.22, where they remained until the 25th. The next day they marched to Gouy-Servins (36b.Q.35.d). Now there is a clear separation between their location when the thirteen (13) other Lance Corporals were lost in early July 1916 (CWGC Link). Map 36b is the same as map 44b.

 

On 27 July 1916 the composite battalion of the 25th/26th Northumberland Fusiliers marched to the front line trenches east of Souchez and Carency, placing them in close vicinity to the where the remains of the Lance Corporal were recovered (war diary page 47 of 931).

 

Just to be sure, I checked the CWGC database and there were no Lance Corporals of the 26th Battalion (part of the composite

 

battalion) killed at that time. Nineteen (19) had been lost on 1 July 1916 (CWGC Link). The only other Lance Corporal of the

 

Northumberland Fusiliers on the Arras Memorial, for this same period, was Lance Corporal William Ramshaw #10244 of the 14th

 

Battalion (21st Divisional Troops). He was lost on 14 August 1916 when the enemey sprang a mine at Clarence Crater

 

(51b.G.12.b) in the Arras Sector (war diary page 153 of 844).

 

Lance Corporal O'Hare was exhumed from the Carency Military Cemetery at 44b.X.21.a.4.7.

 

Although the CWGC COG-BR does say "Believe to Be", it would appear that the evidence is clear that this was a Lance Corporal of the 25th Battalion, the only battalion to have lost such a man at that time and in that location.

 

I would say that we have found the burial site of Lance Corporal James O'Hare #30/257.

 

My grandfather served in the 26th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers, but he did not join the unit until February 1917. The linkage does mean I have most of the texts on the Tyneside Irish. If O'Hare had not been a Northumberland Fusilier I might never have stopped at that line to check him out.

 

I should note that the CWGC did not carry the details of his affiliation to his graves registration (GRRF 1976193). There he was

 

downgraded to an UNKNOWN BRITISH SOLDIER. If you saw his headstone in the Cabaret Rouge British Cemetery you would never

 

know his identity. There the Headstone Schedule tells us he was "A SOLDIER OF THE GREAT WAR" (HD-SCHD 2081509).

[laughton]

Apparently his name was added to the Arras Memorial in 1996. Therre is an old link on the web that ties him to the La Ferte-Sous-Jouarre Memorial. If that was the case, someone discovered that he was named on the wrong memorial and his name was moved. I have myself uncovered a number of those, some are even in the wrong country. That memorial is for "officers and men of the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) who fell at the battles of Mons, Le Cateau, the Marne and the Aisne between the end of August and early October 1914 and have no known graves". 

 

Note: That link is incorrect but do you think I can find the original correct link - no!

That must have been my error, as I have now found the original panel lists and his name is not recorded on that memorial.

Click on image to see full scale: (details on memorial searches is here)

 

 

 

 

 

[laughton]

Back checking on this case to see where it goes.

 

I had not noticed that the 103rd Brigde HQ reports on the casualties as of 31 July 1916 (war diary page 234 of 764):

• 25th NF - 2 men wounded
• 26th NF - 1 wounded, 1 killed
• 27th NF - 1 wounded

The CWGC reccords the last one killed in the 26th Battalion was Private Thomas Walkington #26/323 on 21 July 1916 (CWGC List) but he is

 

listed on Thiepval, so before they left for Pas de Calais sector. Does that mean the Lance Corporal was wounded and died at a medical facility, or

 

are the records incorrect?

 

Correction: On checking the details of the march route, they left the Somme sector and arrived in Pas de Calais sector on 15 July 1916. That

 

means Walkington was killed when the 103rd Brigade was at Hermin (war diary page 45 of 931), unless he was wounded earlier in the month and

 

died at a medical facility in the Somme sector, or the CWGC records are wrong. The 26th Northumberland Fusiliers records make no mention of

 

the death of Walkington (war diary page 203 of 931). Looks like the CWGC information is wrong in both parts - number and date. The list for "UK

 

Soldiers Died in the Great War" gives his number as 26/1323 and his date of death as 31 July 1916 (this link). I checked that against Sheen's text

 

(Appendix 5), which is in agreement with that list. Same for the "Soldier's Effects" listing. His MIC reports the same number 26/1323/.The "Ireland

 

Casualties of WW1" (page 237) reports that he was killed in action. That means he should be named on the Arras Memorial and not the Thiepval

 

Memorial.

 

O'Hares MIC does say he was with the 25th. Best check to see who else buried in the Clarency Cemetery were wounded and died - perhaps

 

some on the COG-BR?

[laughton]

Checking in on the other from the CARENCY MILITARY CEMETERY at 44b.X.21.a.4.7, noting that 44b is the French version of 36b. In that group there are four (4) COG-BR documents, however there may be others in the cemetery.

 

 

The last one is the GOLD MINE as it has a Canadian - Private M. P. Conlan #201140 from the 4th Canadian Mounted Rifles. He died of wounds and was buried in the cemetery and the details tell us he was taken to a dressing station and from there to the No. 10 Canadian Field Ambulance where he succumbed to his wounds. That places this cemetery at a medical facility. Of interest, the cemetery is reported to be 1.5 miles west-southwest of Souchez, which is correct, but the trench map coordinates for the grave at the Carency Military Cemetery at 51c.F.14.a.9.4. That is the trench map coordinates for the woods south of Mont St. Eloy east of Ecoivres, more likely to be the location of the medical facility at the HQ.

 

What we do know is that the cemetery was used for men that died of wounds, so this fits nicely with the case of Lance Corporal O'Hare.

 

 

It is strange that there does not seem to be any order of the graves in the Carency Military Cemetery, at least not by date of death?

 

Do the GWF pals have a way to tell if the other British men in the cemetery also died of wounds?

[laughton]

Finally found O'Hare (OHARE) in John Sheen's text on the Tyneside Irish. I should have clued in from the regimental number 30/257 that he attested to the 30th Northumberland Fusiliers, the Tyneside Irish Reserve Battalion (see Appendix VII). It does report there that his name was added to the Arras Memorial in 1996. There is also a note that he was listed as 30/259 on the 30th Battalion roll.

 

There is no direct reference that I see in the text on the death of Lance Corporal O'Hare. On page 121 we have the combined 25th and 26th Battalions marching towards the front lines at 9:30 pm on the night of 27 July 1916. They relieved the 24/London Regiment, which was complete at 1:30 am on the morning of the 28th. There is an interesting side story there of Captain Jack Arnold's "friendly" chat with a German officer on the other side of the line. As noted in the war diary, the trenches were in a sad state, thus repair seems to have been the order of the day. I don't know from the text what the dates were, but John refers to the Tyneside men working with the Tunnelling Companies each night to remove the spoils.

 

On checking Shakespear's text on the 34th Division (page 54) we find brief mention regarding the devestation of the upper ranks of the Northumberland Fusiliers and their temporary transfer to the 37th Division. They were replaced in the 34th Division by the 111th and 112th Infantry Brigades. In the next chapter (page 74) were learn of their return to the 34th Division on 25 August 1916.

 

Reference to the 103rd Infantry Brigade HQ (war diary page 233 0f 764) tells us that they were still in Fresincourt on the 19th and on the 20th, the 25th Northumberland Fusiliers moved to Hermin 36b.P.22.d. The 102nd and 103rd Brigades were temporarily amalgamated, with the 25th/26th NF amalgamated under Lieutenant-Colonel Coulson. They took over the Carency 36b.X.15.d sector on the 27th/28th from the 142nd Infantry Brigade. The movement is recorded in Operation Order No. 38 (war diary page 254 of 764), showing the battalion leaving Orlencourt for Hermin.

 

They are reported in the Carency trenches, with no exact location, with the next direct reference to them being at Footbal Crater 36c.S.8.b.9.1 between Souchez and Givenchy (war diary page 266 of 764).   There is a combined trench map for that area Givenchy 7A(s) [wo297_1156] - trenches corrected to 27 April 1916: →

 

[laughton]

I see from the LLT for the 34th Division that I should check the 102nd. 103rd and 104th Field Ambulance to see where they were situated on 30 July 1916. Ah, but the LLT also notes "the Brigade was attached to the 37th Division between 6 July and 22 August 1916, following extremely heavy casualties incurred by the Brigade during the attack at La Boiselle on 1 July 1916". That would mean I would need to check the Field Ambulance records for the LLT 37th Division (48th, 49th and 50th Field Ambulance).

 

Starting with the A.D.M.S. for July 1916 (war diary page 125 of 741). The A.D.M.S. went to Frevillers 36b.V.1 on 22 July 1916 to examine 9 unfits

 

from the 27th Northumberland Fusiliers, so we are on the right track. He was at the 26th NF on 24 July 1916. On 25 July he went to the Advance

 

Dressing Station at "Cabaret Rouge" 36c.S.13 in front of Carency 36b.X.15 (CWGC note: Cabaret Rouge was a small café, its brick building with

 

red tiles was distinctive in the village where most of the houses were thatched. It stood less than a mile south of Souchez and was destroyed by

 

heavy shelling in May 1915.) That ADS was to be taken over by the 49th FA on 26 July 1916, so that is the unit to be checking.

 

On 30 July 1916 there is a reference to "Hospital Corner", east of Carency, that the ADMS visited (war diary page 130 of 741). That would appear to be where they took the wounded Lance Corporal O'Hare.

 

Switching over to the 49th Field Ambulance for that period (war diary page 47 of 438). On the 24th there a reference to visiting the Advanced

 

Dressing Station at Cabaret Rouge and the Collecting Station at Carency, so we have a second direct reference. Another reference to "Hospital

 

Corner" on 31 July 1916 (war diary page 49 of 438). Checking on the McMaster Maps that is located at 36b.X.16.d.9.5. That places it just south

 

of Bois du Carency on the road between Carency and Cabaret Rouge.We know from COG-BR 2112833 that the cemetery was at 36b.X.21.a.4.7,

 

both of which are clearly marked on the detailed map Carency 7S [wo297_1152].

 

 

[laughton]

Futher research leads now to the question as to whether O'Hare was wounded and died at a medical facility before being buried, or was he killed in action and then buried at the Carency Military Cemetery? Did they mix him up between the 25th and 26th NF as they were operating as an amalgamated battalion.

 

What about the other men on the same COG-BR as O'Hare?

 

Two (2) of the men on that COG-BR (Earl and Burr) were with the 1/22 London Regiment (The Queen's) in the 142nd Bde., 47th (2nd London) Division.They were killed by shellfire on 26 July 1916 while in a working party proceeding along Cabaret Road to Cabaret Rouge (war diary page 163 of 818). The 142nd Brigade was relieved the next day by 102nd/103rd composite brigade.   I was checking on Burr #5387 and stumbled across the original GRRF 2253551 for the burials in the Carrency Military Cemetery. That refers to the Lance Corporal of the 25th Northumberland Fusiliers, so that is the source of the information on the COG-BR for Cabaret Rouge. They had stuck out the part that originally said "In Memory of an Unknown British Soldier", so that had good reason to believe it was the 25th Lance Corporal.   Note at the bottom that in blue ink it reports that the bodies were concentrated into Cabaret Rouge B C.   The rest of these documents are not insequential order on the CWGC site.

 

In the list at the top of  post #3 it is noted that there was one man killed in the 26th Northumberland Fusiliers. There is no such person listed on the CWGC. There are a total of four (4) others reported wounded in the 25th, 26th and 27th Battalions.

 

These are the only NF lads reported KIA in late July with the 103rd Brigade.

 

WILKINSON	G W	30/07/1916	Private	22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	'22/133'	BOULOGNE EASTERN CEMETERY
McGEE	L	31/07/1916	Private	23rd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.	'23/393'	DANTZIG ALLEY BRITISH CEMETERY, MAMETZ
DONNELY	L P	31/07/1916	Serjeant	24th (Tyneside Irish) Bn.	'24/470'	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
O'HARE	J	30/07/1916	Lance Corporal	25th (Tyneside Irish) Bn.	'30/257'	ARRAS MEMORIAL
BELL	J T	31/07/1916	Private	27th (Tyneside Irish) Bn.	'27/31'	LAPUGNOY MILITARY CEMETERY

 

We can eliminate McGee from the list, as he has a Secondary Regiment listing for the Royal Engineers. There might be a problem with Donnely,

 

as he should not be on the Thiepval Memorial, unless he remained behind and died of wounds. The Ireland Casualties listing says Serjeant

 

Donnely died on 1 July 1916, so the CWGC may be in error. Note that there is no listing for anyone of the 26th Battalion.  The Soldier's Effects

 

database also reports his death as 1 July 1916. I have yet to locate the war diary of the 24th NF to check on Donnely.

 

The Ireland Casualties listing shows O'Hare as KIA not DOW, so it could be that he is the one killed but mistaken as 26th NF?

 

It appears that the 26th NF records skip the last few days of July 1916 and start again in September 1916 (war diary page 203 of 931).

 

O'Hare was the only Lance Corporal of the Northumberland Fusiliers with no known grave from 20 July 1916 to 10 August 1916 on Arras Memorial. There were nine (9) others on the Thiepval Memorial. All listed (CWGC Link).

[laughton]

Now that the error regarding Private Walkington #26/1323 has been sorted out (see post #3 correction notice), we know that he was the one man of the 26th Battalion that was reported killed in action (war diary page 234 of 764). That means it was not an administrative error in the war diary mixing up a death record between the 25th and 26th Battalions. Now we know that Lance Corporal O'Hare was one of the wounded, taken to the 49th Field Ambulance where he subsequently died and was buried at Carency.

 

The case of Walkington (named on this panel list 2123546 - bottom row, 4th box from the left #20) raises the question as to whether O'Hare was also incorrectly named on the Thiepval Memorial until it was corrected in 1996.

 

There is no Lance Corporal J. O'Hare named on the Thiepval Memorial but there is a Private J. O'Hare (same panel page 2123546 - 4th row from

 

the top Box#18). That turns out to be a valid entry, as there was a Private James O'Hare #24/707 serving with the 24th NF and date of death of 3

 

September 1916. The 24th Bn was back in the Somme sector on that date. Was there a simple mix-up in the records because there were two (2)

 

men of the Northumberland Fusiliers with the same name killed only a month apart? There are six (6) "J. O'Hare" men of the Northumberland

 

Fusiliers that died in the Great War (CWGC Link). Only one (1) is a Lance Corporal and two (2) are on the Arras Memorial.

 

It is unfortunate that the CWGC does not record why a person's details were amended.  I was curious as to whether that practice has changed

 

now that we are finding UNKNOWNS? Apparently not, as I checked on Corporal Martin Carroll, 19th Bn CEF and it shows he is in Cabaret-

 

Rouge British Cemetery, but the only document shown is his listing for the Vimy Memorial. The CWGC told me recently that they do not have

 

easy access to change the documents on a soldier's page, but will it eventually be updated?

 

It is begining to appear that the IWGC (or the GRU?) had no details regarding his death from the battalion or brigade records of the period. They

 

would see the same information then that we see today - no deaths reported. The question is, did this remain the case until it was noticed in 1996

 

and his name was added by the CWGC to the Arras Memorial? Did he follow a similar path to Private Thomas Walkington #26/1323 whose death

 

is also not recorded for 31 July 1916 (and is on the wrong memorial)?

 

Here is the current list of the casualties and the noted errors for the 24th, 25th, 26th and 27th Northumberland Fusiliers from 10 July 1916 to 25 August 1916 when they were temporarily in the Arras sector with the 37th Division (corrections now noted in red - there may be others):

 

surname	initials	death	rank	NF Bn.	#	cemetery / memorial	correction
ALLEN	E	7/8/1916	Private	24th	'24/866'	CABARET-ROUGE BRITISH CEMETERY, SOUCHEZ
BRANNIGAN	J	6/8/1916	Private	24th	'30/165'	CABARET-ROUGE BRITISH CEMETERY, SOUCHEZ
DONNELY	L P	31/07/1916	Serjeant	24th	'24/470'	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL (so memorial is correct)	death was 01/07/1916
FLATT	A	16/08/1916	Corporal	24th	'24/1182'	DIVION COMMUNAL CEMETERY
HENDERSON	T	11/8/1916	Private	24th	'24/334'	CABARET-ROUGE BRITISH CEMETERY, SOUCHEZ
SAUNDERS	J B	18/07/1916	Private	24th	'24/1705'	BOULOGNE EASTERN CEMETERY
STAFF	J	21/07/1916	Private	24th	'24/676'	ABBEVILLE COMMUNAL CEMETERY
BROWN	J G	18/07/1916	Private	25th	'25/779'	ST. SEVER CEMETERY, ROUEN
CHARLESWORTH	T S	10/7/1916	Second Lieutenant	25th		GORDON DUMP CEMETERY, OVILLERS-LA BOISSELLE
HENRY	J	20/07/1916	Private	25th	'25/999'	ST. SEVER CEMETERY, ROUEN
LAMBERT	J H	9/8/1916	Captain	25th		BARLIN COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION
MULLARKEY	M	15/07/1916	Private	25th	'25/395'	ABBEVILLE COMMUNAL CEMETERY
O'HARE	J	30/07/1916	Lance Corporal	25th	'30/257'	ARRAS MEMORIAL	Cabaret Rouge B.C.
DORNER	J	5/8/1916	Private	26th	'1411'	CABARET-ROUGE BRITISH CEMETERY, SOUCHEZ
ELLIOTT	C	18/07/1916	Private	26th	'26/199'	ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
GRAHAM	S	17/07/1916	Private	26th	'24585'	LA NEUVILLE BRITISH CEMETERY, CORBIE
GRAINGER	D	10/7/1916	Private	26th	'26/921'	BOULOGNE EASTERN CEMETERY
HALE	J W	19/07/1916	Private	26th	'19348'	ST. SEVER CEMETERY, ROUEN
METCALF	T J	5/8/1916	Private	26th	'26/416'	CABARET-ROUGE BRITISH CEMETERY, SOUCHEZ
NOBLE	J W	11/7/1916	Private	26th	'26/1146'	ST. SEVER CEMETERY, ROUEN
WALKINGTON	T	21/07/1916	Private	26th	'26/323'	THIEPVAL MEMORIAL (should be Arras Memorial)	26/1323 death 31/07/1916
BELL	J T	31/07/1916	Private	27th	'27/31'	LAPUGNOY MILITARY CEMETERY
CROSSEY	C	24/07/1916	Private	27th	'27/154'	ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY
MALLOY	J	15/07/1916	Private	27th	'27/1129'	BOULOGNE EASTERN CEMETERY

[laughton]

I heard back from the CWGC this morning, with an amazing response time of LESS THAN ONE (1) HOUR!

 

They have confirmed that Lance Corporal O'Hare was a "non-commemoration" case from 1996 and that there was no report on his burial location. They have checked that the 25th Northumberland Fusiliers were in the Carency sector so they added him to the Arras Memorial.

 

That is the best answer that could be expected. It means he was forgotten at the time and that is why he was not matched to the grave in Cabaret Rouge British Cemetery.

 

 

[laughton]

I have completed my draft report on Lance Corporal O'Hare. If anyone wishes to provide a review and comments, that would be appreciated. Any corrections required are important, be they typos, unclear comments, outright errors or other.

 

Thanks!

 

https://laughton.ca/reports/Lance%20Corporal%20O'Hare%20Cabaret%20Rouge%20British%20Cemetery%20Plot%209%20Row%20E%20Grave%204.pdf

[dickaren]

Great detective work again Richard. Keep them coming.

Richard

[8055Bell]

Hi Richard,

I've enjoyed reading your thread.

I'm looking at a draft of men attached to 17th Manchesters on 12th July 1916.  This inclued a group of men from 25th N'Land Fusils who arrived in France on 1 July.  I have identified 11+ members of the group who would have been transferred to the Manchesters on 1st September. This includes 30/272 Francis O'Connor, who was killed at Arras on 23/4/1917.

17th Manchesters attacked Guillemont on 30 July and I've found various members of other mid-July drafts who were killed and recorded as their original Regiment.  I'm wondering if this accounts for James O'Hare's loss.  The attachement to another Regiment could explain why he was not included in earlier IWGC data.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Cheers

Tim
 

[laughton]

I looked into this and I assume you are asking it James was attached to another regiment at some time and followed the path of the example you provided. I could find no evidence of that happening. Or maybe I misunderstand you question or comment?

[8055Bell]

Hi Richard,

FMP indicates James O'Hare was attached to the Manchesters.  I only had a hunch before.

British Army, Northumberland Fusiliers 1881-1920

First name(s)	James
Last name	O'hare
Birth place	Gateshead
Residence	Newcastle
Address	68 Elswick St
Enlistment year	1881-1920
Enlistment place	Newcastle
Service number	30/ 257
Rank	Lance Corporal
Battalion	30th
Transfer to/from	To 25th Bn
Cause of discharge	Killed in Action
Death year	1916
Death date	30/7/16
Place buried/memorial	Arras Memorial,France 1996
Notes	'A' Coy; Age 30yrs; KIA Att'd Manchester Regt
Source	IH;SDGW;SGG;MIC;MR
Record set	British Army, Northumberland Fusiliers 1881-1920
Category	Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory	Regimental & Service Records
Collections from	Great Britain, UK None

[laughton]

Very interesting - guess I have some new work in front of me - not sure what?

[laughton]

The only casualty for that date for the Manchester Regiment was a Private of the 11th Battalion at Bretencourt 51c.R.26 (war diary page 6 of 813).

 

The others were further away on the Somme.

 

I guess the question is "When was he attached to the Manchester Regiment"? Are there any more details?

[8055Bell]

I have no other details of James O'Hare

I mentioned the draft 11+ of  NF posted to France as 25th and then attached to 17th Manchesters on 12th July 1916.  This would appear to coincide with the possible attachement of James and his death at Guillemont on 30th July.    See Martin Patrick as an example

[laughton]

Thanks !  Did not know which battalion. Guillemont 57c.T.19 action (war diary page 171 of 547). 48 dead and 37 missing.

So if he was there and killed then he is not in Cabaret-Rouge.