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Remembered Today:

HUGH LYNCH, Sergeant 4423, 7th Battalion, Royal Irish Rifles


Tom Lang
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I am researching this soldier and I'm interested to know if I'm on the right track.
Hopefully the GWF gurus will keep me straight.

Here's what I know.
HUGH LYNCH was born in Glasgow, on 6th June, 1891.
His mother died on 6th April, 1894, in Glasgow.
He is listed on the 1901 Census (31st March, 1901), aged 9, and living with his father and siblings.
His father died on 30th June, 1901, in Glasgow.
I cannot find him in the 1911 Census, but on his marriage record (see attached) of 23rd October, 1915, now age 23 [sic], his occupation is shown as "a Boiler Stoker (Sergeant 7th Battalion, Royal Irish Rifles - Reservist)".
His Soldier's Will is signed 17th December, 1915 (attached).
His MIC shows that he entered France on 21st December, 1915 (attached).
He was Killed in Action on 9th September, 1916, and is commemorated on Thiepval Memorial.

What I'd like to know:
Can anyone point me in the direction to find out his military service prior to WW1?
This would (or could) explain why he was a 'Reservist' in 1915.
It may also show why he is not listed in the 1911 Census (he'd be 19-20 years old), as he was off serving somewhere.
As a Sergeant and a Reservist, this would mean that he had served his time and was discharged.

The date on his marriage record of 23rd October, 1915; the date on his Soldier's Will of 17th December, 1915; and the date on his MIC of 21st December, 1915, all show preparations of a 'Reservist' being re-called to duty.

Am I thinking straight, or can anyone point me in the right direction?

Lest We Forget.
(P.S. I'm now away to search for the War Diary on Ancestry.)

1915 Oct 23 marriage Lynch Hugh M age 23 - snippet.jpg

Lynch Hugh Michael - Sgt 4423 7th Royal Irish Rifles - Soldiers Will - p3 - snippet.jpg

Lynch Hugh M - Sjt 7_4423 - R Irish Rfls - MIC.jpg

Edited by Tom Lang
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I have had no luck finding an earlier reference to him so perhaps his records are lost. Although...

if a Sergeant he will(?) have been serving prior to outbreak of war

was he a member of Jersey militia who joined 7th RIR?

or is he in the 1911 Census posted in the army elsewhere?

Questions but no answers

 

George

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You may be interested to know that WDYTYA, BBC 9pm Monday just gone featured Ernest McDowell 7th RIR. Relation to Daniel Radcliffe/Harry Potter. 

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Thanks George and Alan.

I've learned that the 7th Royal Irish Rifles, was formed in Belfast in September, 1914, so I can only guess that Sgt Lynch had previously served with another Regiment or Battalion, and being a Reservist, he was called up and posted to the 7th Royal Irish Rifles.

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Hi Tom,

 

His Soldiers' Effects record shows that a War Gratuity payment of £9/- was made. Using Craig's (ss002d6252  OTP) version 3-4 of his calculator, gives war service counting from circa April 1915. I know very little about these things, but I would have thought that a pre war regular, already in the reserve would have been mobilised much sooner than that.

 

Regards

Chris

 

Edit:

I see that the expert has just posted

Edited by clk
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Here's his actual Soldier's Effects record...

Lynch Hugh Michael - Sgt 4423 7th Royal Irish Rifles - KIA 9 Sep 1916 - Soldiers Effects snippet.jpg

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From the 7th Bn War Diary:

On 19th December, 1915, 7th Bn left Blackdown and embarked at Southampton at 4.30. They arrived at Le Havre at 7.30am on 20th December, 1915.

On 15th November, 1917, at Ytres, 7th Bn amalgamated with the 2nd Bn Royal Irish Rifles.

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Hi Tom. 

The 7/RIR were part of the 16th Irish Division. They were newly formed in Autumn 1914, initially training in Ireland and later in Basingstoke in 1915. They entered (1) F&F quite late in Dec 1915. It would seem odd for a new recruit to advance to Sergeant in such a short space of time. So I agree that it seems more likely he had some prior experience with another unit either as a reservist or pre-war regular.

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He may well have had some service prewar but he was out of any service ccommitment by Aug 14 based on the war gratuity paid.

 

Craig

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3 hours ago, Jervis said:

Hi Tom. 

The 7/RIR were part of the 16th Irish Division. They were newly formed in Autumn 1914, initially training in Ireland and later in Basingstoke in 1915. They entered (1) F&F quite late in Dec 1915. It would seem odd for a new recruit to advance to Sergeant in such a short space of time. So I agree that it seems more likely he had some prior experience with another unit either as a reservist or pre-war regular.

Many thanks.

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2 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

He may well have had some service prewar but he was out of any service ccommitment by Aug 14 based on the war gratuity paid.

 

Craig

Many thanks for the time you've put into developing you calculator. It is awesome.

I also note what you say about any service commitment.

Given the following:

His mother died when he was almost 3 years old.

He is listed in the 1901 census aged 9.

His father died 3 months later.

Could it be possible that he joined the army, say at 16, 17 or 18ish (1908, 1909 or 1910ish) and this is why I cannot find him in the 1911 Census.?

If he joined the army during those years, he would have served 6, 7 or 8 years prior to the start of WW1 in 1914.

Or if he had served 9 years with the colours, he might have been discharged to the Reserves in 1911ish.

Hopefully you can 'see' what I'm getting at - It may be possible that he had joined pre-WW1, and had served his time even into the 1st or 2nd years of WW1 - then was discharged. This might explain his rank of Sergeant.

Then, of course, I might just be blowing smoke...

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21 hours ago, George Rayner said:

or is he in the 1911 Census posted in the army elsewhere?

...how do we find the census of army posts. I have done it once before for a Suffolk Battalion in Jersey but cant repeat the success. Must be the sun!

 

George

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5 hours ago, Tom Lang said:

Many thanks for the time you've put into developing you calculator. It is awesome.

I also note what you say about any service commitment.

Given the following:

His mother died when he was almost 3 years old.

He is listed in the 1901 census aged 9.

His father died 3 months later.

Could it be possible that he joined the army, say at 16, 17 or 18ish (1908, 1909 or 1910ish) and this is why I cannot find him in the 1911 Census.?

If he joined the army during those years, he would have served 6, 7 or 8 years prior to the start of WW1 in 1914.

Or if he had served 9 years with the colours, he might have been discharged to the Reserves in 1911ish.

Hopefully you can 'see' what I'm getting at - It may be possible that he had joined pre-WW1, and had served his time even into the 1st or 2nd years of WW1 - then was discharged. This might explain his rank of Sergeant.

Then, of course, I might just be blowing smoke...

Never say never but if it was a regular army enlistment he'd still be serving long enough in to the war to have been retained under the Military Service Act (if he'd been in a position to ordinarily have been discharged) . Any discharge would have to have been medical.

 

If he had any reserve commitment in Aug 14 he would typically have been recalled within a few days.

 

Barring a major issue though any war time service he had would be aggregated in to the total war gratuity.

 

Craig

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2 hours ago, George Rayner said:

...how do we find the census of army posts. I have done it once before for a Suffolk Battalion in Jersey but cant repeat the success. Must be the sun!

 

George

If you use Ancestry then use the keyword 'Military' on the census search. I can't see anything obvious though.

 

Craig

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Thanks Craig. Must have been very lucky last time-not how I did it!

 

George

Edited by George Rayner
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The mention of reservist on the marriage certificate is very odd - there a couple of unusual situations with the war gratuity which might come in to play but they're unlikely. I'll have a think about it though.

 
Craig

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So, let's start from the other side and look at when the service number dates from and see if that draws any assistance.

7/4426 was issued to Patrick McPhillips was posted to 7th Bn on 23 March 1915.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F007270363%2F00254&parentid=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F7270363%2F28%2F254

 

This is entirely consistent with the issue of #4423 based on the war gratuity - it tightens the dates of enlistment as well to between 10 March and 23 March 1915.

Craig

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Can we establish what his situation was in October 1915 when Lynch was a reservist?

Looking...

 

George

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Unfortunately not as he was discharged in July 1915 'unlikely to become...'

..but he had served 13 years in RIF previously

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f007270363%2f00260&parentid=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f7270363%2f28%2f254

FMP

George

Edited by George Rayner
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Just now, George Rayner said:

Can we establish what his situation was in October 1915 when Lynch was a reservist?

Looking...

 

George

I think the reservist mention is a red-herring George (even though it's mentioned on the marriage cert).


The war gratuity ties in with his service number from the enlistment date to the death so we know that section is fine. It indicates continuous service with the colours for that period - if he'd been released to a reserve capacity during this time he'd not have accrued war gratuity for it.

 

If he had been a reservist in 1914 he'd have been recalled pretty sharpish. Based on his date of service he couldn't have been Derby scheme or MSA man. It can't be that he was serving, discharged, and re-enlisted during this period in time either as he'd have then been given a different service number to the one dating from Marc 1915

 

Very odd.

Craig

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I haven't enough knowledge to make useful comment! But I don't like conundrums like this

 

George

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8 minutes ago, George Rayner said:

I haven't enough knowledge to make useful comment! But I don't like conundrums like this

 

George


Me too !


I was hoping the war gratuity didn't tie in with the number as we'd then have a good suggestion towards something else service wise.

Craig

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You guys are the gurus. I'm highly impressed with your insights and approaches.

I've got 2 more clues for you.

The address on his marriage record for the place of the marriage is 17 Almada Street, Hamilton, Lanarkshire.

That's the address of Hamilton Barracks 

 

A newspaper clipping taken from The Hamilton Advertiser, dated 25th November, 1916, reads:
"LARKHALL AND THE WAR - Mrs H. Lynch, 22 Milton Place, Larkhall, has received official notice that her husband, Sergt. H. Lynch, of the Royal Irish Rifles, was killed in action on the 8th September. He enlisted in May, 1915. Previous to enlisting he was employed in a brewery in Glasgow".

1916 Nov 25 - Ham Adv - Sgt H Lynch Royal Irish Rifles.jpg

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The clue in the newspaper clipping shows "... He enlisted in May, 1915..."

Maybe this is 'embellishment' by the local reporter.

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