Date of arrival of 50th Battalion C.E.F. in England

[Gary_G]

I've found a copy of the Nominal Roll for the 50th Battalion C.E.F. on the Library and Archives Canada site.

It shows that they sailed from Halifax, Nova Scotia, on the 27 October 1915 aboard the S.S. Orduna.

I also understand that they reached England on 4 November 1915, but cannot find a citable reference to support this.

Can anybody help me with finding one I could consult?

 

Regards;

Gary

[charlie962]

This BacLac source says 4/11/15 and references further sources. Or have you this already?

[PRC]

1 hour ago, Gary_G said:

I've found a copy of the Nominal Roll for the 50th Battalion C.E.F. on the Library and Archives Canada site.

It shows that they sailed from Halifax, Nova Scotia, on the 27 October 1915 aboard the S.S. Orduna.

I also understand that they reached England on 4 November 1915, but cannot find a citable reference to support this.

Can anybody help me with finding one I could consult?

 

How citable does it have to be - it's just that if you have the nominal roll then you know the men who sailed aboard her. As practically all the service records have now been digitised, then one source for the confirmation would be to look up a sample of the relevant service records. While you should check the whole record for each individual looked at, I'd start with the date on the Casualty Form - Active Service and then look for discrepancies, (if any), elsewhere in the file.

 

Additionally the crew lists for 1915 for merchant vessels flying the British flag have been digitised and put online. This shows the crew members of the Orduna signing up for a voyage to last to the 11th November 1915, (which was presumably overkill in case of delays). I don't know if there is more in the actual paperwork that might help you.

https://1915crewlists.rmg.co.uk/document/210351

 

Cheers,

Peter

[charlie962]

Gary, you've started posting on another thread and you've quoted name of David Murison

 

His Service record is here and he is noted as arriving England 6/11/15. There may be further detail in his file; (have you downloaded the PdF ?

 

Charlie

 

 

Edited 22 July , 2019 by charlie962

[Moonraker]

One explanation for any apparent discrepancy could be that his ship arrived in an English port on the earlier date but he himself did not disembared for a couple of days. This was certainly the case with the First Canadian Contingent at Plymouth. Mind you, it comprised some 32,000 men and their equipment and there was a last-minute change of port.

 

I don't know how large future convoys were, but even if they were  markedly smaller it would have taken some time for the men to disembark and board trains.

 

Moonraker

[Gary_G]

Thanks fellows.

 

I have the records for David Murison (Service Files, 50th Battalion Nominal Roll) and the Infantry history PDF from the LAC. As correctly surmised, I was concerned about the apparent discrepancy in date of "arrival" between the service files and the LAC Infantry history document. "Moonraker" makes a good point. The ship could have arrived on the date supported by the Infantry History PDF,  but David Murison officially landed on the date shown in the service files.  I think there is some confusion, because of the use of the phrase "Arrived in England" in the service file. "Landed" is likely more a more correct term. The crew list further supports that contention, because everyone would have been landed by the date the crew were discharged.

 

A special thanks to "PRC" for his mention and link to the crew lists. I wasn't aware of that site. I'll be looking at it to help document the military history of other servicemen in my family.

 

Now the only question is how do I determine and find the specific source used in the LAC Infantry History PDF to support the ship's arrival date? The document doesn't really tell one from which reference document the arrival date was taken."charlie962"; do you happen to know which document supports the arrival date?

[charlie962]

3 hours ago, Gary_G said:

do you happen to know which document supports the arrival date?

I gave the French link to sources above. Here is the English version. But I'm not familiar with researching these sources in Canadian Archives, sorry.

 

Charlie

[MaxD]

Unhelpfully, the 50th Canadian Infantry battalion war diary at the  Canadian archives starts on 10 August 1916 with its departure from England to France. (pdf detail supports that date also). 

 

MaxD

[Gary_G]

I know that some ships had their own War Diary. I wonder if this was true for the Orduna on which David Murison sailed to England from Halifax.

[Gary_G]

I was able to find the following reference on the Library and Archives Canada site. They haven't yet digitized the files, but the description shows, "disembarking in England on 4 November 1915."

 

29

50th Canadian Infantry Battalion [textual record].

Date:

ca. 1914-1919

Reference:

RG9-III-C-3, R611-115-6-E.

Textual material. [Conditions of access Open]. Government. Sub-series.

... The battalion itself embarked at Halifax on 27 October 1915 aboard
ORDUNA, disembarking in England on 4 November 1915. ...

Found in:

Archives / Collections and Fonds

Context of this record  

• 

  Ministry of the Overseas Military Forces of Canada fonds [multiple media] 
• 

  

  Canadian Expeditionary Force sous-fonds [multiple media] 
• 

  

  Infantry historical records [textual record] 
• 

  

  50th Canadian Infantry Battalion [textual record]