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Remembered Today:

3rd Ammunition Column


Echobeach

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Hello. I am hoping that someone might be able to help me find some further information on my Great Grandfather Dvr Thomas Wright RFA Service No :- 7647. I have found out that he was with the 3rd Ammunition Column but was also a regular before the outbreak of war.

However he appears to have had a 'chequered' past shall we say, whilst I was delving into others archives I found out that he was also in the 4th Norfolk Regiment Service No :- 3535 (approx. 1900) but I have now hit a bit of a wall. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by Echobeach
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Welcome Echobeach,

 

His medal index card that you have already seen, no doubt, shows that he went to France 19/8/14 with 3rd Divisional Ammunition Column as a Driver, RFA, and was awarded the clasp/rosette with his 1914 Star. He appears to have finished up as a Corporal so won't entirely have blotted his copybook.

 

Someone with access to Ancestry Rolls may be able to add a bit ?

 

Can you give us a bit more about him ie born when/where, lived where ?

 

Charlie

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2 hours ago, Echobeach said:

Hello. I am hoping that someone might be able to help me find some further information on my Great Grandfather Dvr Thomas Wright RFA Service No :- 7647. I have found out that he was with the 3rd Ammunition Column but was also a regular before the outbreak of war.

However he appears to have had a 'chequered' past shall we say, whilst I was delving into others archives I found out that he was also in the 4th Norfolk Regiment Service No :- 3535 (approx. 1900) but I have now hit a bit of a wall. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

If he joined the 4th Volunteer Battalion of the Norfolk Regiment in 1900 he was a volunteer in a Home Defence only unit, raised to protect the county of Norfolk from invasion. He would therefore have carried on normally with his day time job. Having said which a group of those Volunteers were embodied for Imperial Service at their own request and went out to South Africa -  while it was called a company I believe it was more like a couple of overstrength platoons. On arrival in South Africa they were attached to the 2nd Battalion, Norfolk Regiment, and to all intents their war record are one and the same. I've only had a quick look but I don't think Thomas is on the service medal roll for either the Queens South Africa Medal, (1899-1901) or the Kings South Africa Medal, (1901-1902), but I do have gaps.

 

Bit of History on the 2nd Norfolks in the Boer War here:-

https://www.angloboerwar.com/unit-information/imperial-units/575-norfolk-regiment

 

As far as I'm aware even the Regimental Museum doesn't have full muster rolls for the Volunteer Battalions, so I assume you found some other paperwork that dates when he joined.

 

One of the lessons learned from the Boer War was the need for a bigger pool of reserves. The Army wanted National Service, the politicians opted for beefing up the Volunteer movement by replacing it with the Territorial Force, (TF) in 1908. All men serving with the Volunteer Battalions had the option of transferring to the new Territorial Force equivalent, but given the extra commitments required, the rate of take-up was quite low and left the TF seriously understrength all the way through to the outbreak of the Great War.

 

Both the Volunteers and the TF were also a stepping stone into joining the Regular Army, so his "chequered" past may simply be a reflection of the changes that were going on in the units he was serving with.

 

As Charlie said, would be good to know what you have so we can see if its possible to build on it.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Thank you so much. The additional information I have is the usual, he was born in Ludham, Norfolk on the 30th July 1877, he ran away from home aged just 9 years old after horse whipping his School master & ended up as a fisherman in Great Yarmouth before ending up in the Army. How this transition took place is anyone's guess!.

It would appear on the 8th May 1899 he was charged with desertion (publication date 23rd May 1899) however I am unable to view the record as yet.

 

Best regards

Bill

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Thomas Wright enlisted 12/4/1900 in the RFA as a Regular on a 7/5 basis. (7 years colours, 5 years reserve).

 

He was finally discharged in August 1921 as a Cpl/P/L.Sgt having been renumbered postwar to 1025813. I could not see an obvious listing in the MoD 'held' service files but there is this record in RA Attestations on FindmyPast here.

 

edit- Attestation gives age on enlistment 21y9/12m suggesting birth July1878 ?

 

Charlie

 

RA Attestations shows him as fisherman, so he is probably the same Thos Wright, fisherman of Ludham up before the beak in 1897, drunk and disorderly. Here on FMP newspapers. A similar incident Aug 1896.

 

I see he married Mary Maud Godfrey Southampton, 19/5/1912. Maybe his marriage cert shows what he was doing at that time ?

Edited by charlie962
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Hi Bill,

 

If Thomas remained with 3 DAC throughout the conflict, their war diary is available at the National Archives (£3.50) from here

 

Regards

Chris

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20 hours ago, Echobeach said:

The additional information I have is the usual, he was born in Ludham, Norfolk on the 30th July 1877, he ran away from home aged just 9 years old after horse whipping his School master & ended up as a fisherman in Great Yarmouth before ending up in the Army. How this transition took place is anyone's guess!.

It would appear on the 8th May 1899 he was charged with desertion (publication date 23rd May 1899) however I am unable to view the record as yet.

 

 

So this is the Thomas Wright, mothers’ maiden name Rice, whose birth was registered in the Smallburgh District in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1877?

Smallburgh Civil Registration District included the Civil Parish of Ludham.

 

The baptism of a Thomas Wright, no date of birth recorded, took place at St Catherine, Ludham, on the 7th October 1877. His parents were Charles, a Labourer, and Louisa. The family lived in the parish of Ludham.

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5818d5b5e93790eca3eb6fb2/thomas-wright-baptism-norfolk-ludham-1877-10-07?locale=en

The Bishops Transcript of the Parish Register can be seen here:-

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939F-R6DV-G?i=169&cc=1823613

 

(Note – there is a a George Thomas Wright and possibly a Thomas Wright, no middle name, born Great Yarmouth, round about the same time, so care needs to be taken not to mix them up).

 

1881 Census has the three year old Thomas, born Ludham, recorded at Hall Common, Ludham. Parents were Charles, (45, Farmers Labourer) and Louisa, (33) – both born Ludham. Thomas has 7 siblings still living at home, the oldest being 16, so potentially Louisa may have been a second wife. Both parents and all the children were born Ludham.

 

The 1891 census has the 14 year old Thomas, an Agricultural Labourer, recorded living with his parents Charles & Louisa at Staithe Road, Ludham. An additional four children have been born since the last census, so Thomas still has 9 siblings living at home. If he ran away at the age of 9 he obviously had come back at some stage.

 

The 4th Volunteer Battalion of the Norfolk Regiment, (VBNR), would have taken recruits from the eastern coastal area of the county so he could have joined either at Ludham or Great Yarmouth. Attesting at the age of 17 and a half, (the minimum age), was a not uncommon step for those young men intending to join the army so possibly he joined 4VBNR for a few months before signing up in the Regular Army.. Presumably his attestation papers with the RFA in 1900 show him as being a Fisherman prior to enlisting and with an address in Great Yarmouth?

 

They will hopefully also confirm where he was at the time of the 1901 Census of England & Wales – as on that census there is a 23 year old Driver Thomas Wright who was serving with the 148th Battery, Royal Field Artillery, and who was recorded in Barracks at Crondall in the registration district of Hartley Wintney, (i.e. near Aldershot). This young man is however shown as born Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, raising the possibility that he is not a match for the Ludham born man although hopefully he is a match for the man whose service records have been identified. The man on the census was unmarried.

 

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a Gunner Thomas Wright, born Ludham, Norfolk, who was serving with the Royal Field Artillery at their No.4 Depot at Cosham, Hampshire. He was single and aged 32.

 

If it’s the same man as the one papers have been identified for then looks like he either converted his 7 plus 5 year term to serving the full 12 years in the colours or even for the full term, (think its 21 years), in order to get a Pension.

 

The potential marriage to Mary Maud Godfrey at Southampton on the 19th May 1912 has already been mentioned.The marriage certificate should at a minimum confirm rank and corps \ regiment served with. It will also give her age and marital status, as there does not appear to be a likely birth for a Mary Maud Godfrey in England & Wales, raising the possibility that she was a widow.

 

Without a mothers’ maiden name and given how common the surname Wright is, it will be pure guesswork as to whether the couple had children, One possibility is a check of the 1939 National Register, (if he lived that long), to see if any child details are given. (Available on Ancestry & FindMyPast).

 

The point of the exercise is to obtain birth certificates for children born while Thomas was still serving as they will give details of rank and unit, (at a minimum) for the father.

 

Additionally, once you know the mothers’ maiden name any child was registered with, you can check for other potential birth matches which could be children that had moved out, were away from home or had died, In the latter case, if they died while Thomas was serving his rank and unit details may be captured there.

 

 

7 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Thomas Wright enlisted 12/4/1900 in the RFA as a Regular on a 7/5 basis. (7 years colours, 5 years reserve).

edit- Attestation gives age on enlistment 21y9/12m suggesting birth July1878 ?

 

RA Attestations shows him as fisherman, so he is probably the same Thos Wright, fisherman of Ludham up before the beak in 1897, drunk and disorderly. Here on FMP newspapers. A similar incident Aug 1896.

 

I see he married Mary Maud Godfrey Southampton, 19/5/1912. Maybe his marriage cert shows what he was doing at that time ?

 

The more immediate question for me is does the detail from the civil record above tie in with the service record?

 

Cheers,

Peter

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I would note that a regular (reservist) he must have extended his service as his 12 years would have been up in 1912.. as just noted above .

But 3rd DAC, like all DACs was formed almost entirely of mobilised reservists with some Reserve Brigade officers/NCOs; in their case mobilised at Hilsea in Aug 1914. The 3rd DAC  c/o [Lt-Col Ford] came from commanding III Reserve Brigade - Hilsea... which at that time had 140 and 141st Batteries.. so if still active and not a mobilised reservist he may have been there.. Note that depots and  and various batteries and brigades had seen some major changes around 1913.. so 1911 unit postings posts often changed by 1914.

 

Older men such as him were perhaps more likely to have remained with the DAC while many others were later transferred to one of the 3rd Division RFA Brigades, either gun batteries or their Brigade Ammunition Columns.. as DACs  were a source of replacements/reinforcements.

Edited by battiscombe
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Wow! Thankyou all so much for your efforts, it is greatly appreciated so much more comprehensive than my paltry efforts. I managed to find on fold3.com The Police Gazette records, 'Absentees from the Militia', giving enlistment date (08-06-1896) but it gives no reasons for any offences committed so I'm none the wiser there.

PRC, you are correct about Thomas's parents, Charles & Louisa with (I believe) 14 siblings which I'm still clarifying. However I digress & obviously it is Thomas's war record I am concentrating on. Being ex forces myself it is an important link that I feel needs bringing to life. Once again thank you for your help,

 

All the best

Bill

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I've just come across a link in another thread, which shows a (reproduction) souvenir edition of the Yarmouth Mercury from July 1915 featuring pictures of the first thousand men from Great Yarmouth who were serving. Thomas is not included, so the personal link with Great Yarmouth was probably long since broken.

http://www.roll-of-honour.org.uk/My-Home-Town/Norfolk/Great_Yarmouth/WWI/html/Yarmouth-Mercury-On-Active-Service.pdf

 

I haven't checked the other Wright's pictured to see if they were related.

 

Good luck with your search,

Peter

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22 hours ago, PRC said:

or even for the full term, (think its 21 years)

Do you not think this is the more likely? Given that his 12 yrs would be finished before 1914 but his departure to France 19/8/14 must mean he was either Reserve or Serving at the outbreak of war. Clearyl some sort of extension hence why marriage cert at 12 yrs 1 mth after enlistment might confirm ?

 

Charlie

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1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

Do you not think this is the more likely? Given that his 12 yrs would be finished before 1914 but his departure to France 19/8/14 must mean he was either Reserve or Serving at the outbreak of war. Clearyl some sort of extension hence why marriage cert at 12 yrs 1 mth after enlistment might confirm ?

 

Charlie,

 

Agreed and this has got to top of the list of probabilities.

 

Of course he could have completed his period in the colours between 1901 & 1911, tried civvy life and then decided to re-enlist.

Or he could have left in April 1911 as time expired, married  a month later, but then turned up at the barrack door on the outbreak of war like so many time expired men did.

Or he could have extended a year at a time and still left before August 1914.

 

The circumstances in which he went out in 1914 might be covered in a local newspaper to where Thomas and his wife Emma were living or his parents were living. Unfortunately by the time of the 1901 Census father Charles is recorded as a widower, and he appears to have died before the 1911 one was taken. I tried the looking in the Norwich based titles as I've no doubt he still had brothers and sisters in the Ludham area. However his link to the area seems to have been either genuinely forgotten or an article on Ludham and the War which appeared in the Eastern Evening News in the edition dated Saturday September 19 1914 may be an indicator that he wasn't serving at the outbreak of the conflict.

 

"At the outbreak of the war Ludham men serving in the regular forces numbered: Navy 3, Royal Engineers 1, Royal Garrison Artillery 1, Northampton Regiment 1, Army Ordnance Corps 1. Upon mobilisation one man went up with the Yeomanry and 3 with the Territorials."

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Good evening Gentlemen, 

Thought I would confirm / answer a couple of the above questions. I managed to dig up Thomas & Mays wedding certificate which confirms he was a Driver in the RFA.

However I now have a lead to my Great great grandfather (May's Father) who was a Color Sargeant in the 1st Royal Scots born 1850 but I am struggling to search him.

Anyway than you all for your information.

 

All the best 

Bill

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52 minutes ago, Echobeach said:

 I managed to dig up Thomas & Mays wedding certificate which confirms he was a Driver in the RFA.

However I now have a lead to my Great great grandfather (May's Father) who was a Color Sargeant in the 1st Royal Scots born 1850 but I am struggling to search him.

 

So he married a May ??? rather than Mary Maud Godfrey. If you don't mind me asking what are the details?

 

Cheers,

Peter

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13 hours ago, PRC said:

a May ??? rather than Mary

May is also a pet name for Mary.

 

Good to have the confirmation of Driver RFA

 

Charlie

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3 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

May is also a pet name for Mary.

 

Agreed - but a wedding certificate should bear the full legal name someone has - not the names they prefer to be known as. Of course someone can lie to the registrar \ priest concerned or mislead them, but that runs the risk of making the marriage legally invalid. Plenty of spouses have been embarrased at the ceremony at having to announce at the wedding their full birth name :-) They can state at the ceremony the new legal name they want to be known as - the hyphenated surname for example - and this can be shown on the certificate I vaguely remember from when I use to deal with such things professionally, but that's going forward, not retrospectively changing the past.

 

Of course they may have been known to all and sundry subsequently as May, and its good to know as an option for searching, but can be dangerously misleading and waste time searching civil records if its used in a way to imply its their legal name - especially if it turns out to be a typo after all that !

 

Apologies if I sound like I'm having a rant - it's just I've wasted hours of my life that I'm not going to get back on such fruitless searches because of duff info.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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It is possible that by 1914 he had joined Section D of the Army Reserve, which was for men who had completed their twelve years with the Colours and ordinary Army Reserve, nd then re-engaged for four years' extra service at a time. This meant he might have been a bit older than many others who rejoined from the Reserve in 1914, and also makes it more understandable that he went into a Div Amm Column and stayed there.

 

Another relevant point that, having a wife to support, he might have re-enlisted to give them both a reliable source of income and full board and lodging for himself. In those days many men chose to enlist for this reason. But this is just speculation on my part.

 

Ron

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2 hours ago, Ron Clifton said:

It is possible that by 1914 he had joined Section D of the Army Reserve, which was for men who had completed their twelve years with the Colours and ordinary Army Reserve, nd then re-engaged for four years' extra service at a time.

Useful to know of this.

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The RA Attestations is devoid of his war service details. Is there anything to be deduced  from the date of his discharge 11/8/21 (original enlistment 12/4/00) meaning he did 21 yrs and a bit ?

 

He kept the same RA number until renumbered 7 digit so presumably continuous service.

 

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
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On ‎25‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 23:15, PRC said:

 

So he married a May ??? rather than Mary Maud Godfrey. If you don't mind me asking what are the details?

 

Cheers,

Peter

Hello Peter.

 

I can add the Marriage Certificate as an attachment provided I'm not breaking any forum rules :-) hopefully this will help.

 

Cheers 

Bill

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2 minutes ago, Echobeach said:

provided I'm not breaking any forum rules

If you've paid for it and you acknowledge source then shouldn't be a problem.

Charlie

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2 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

If you've paid for it and you acknowledge source then shouldn't be a problem.

Charlie

Thank you Charlie.

It is the original which is now mine, my Mother managed to find it for me, stroke of luck there!. I shall attach it here.

I do struggle making out the writing but on the census's I have found my Great Gran is definitely a May but I am a novice. I was hoping that with May's father being in the Royal Scots my journey might become easier..... I just seem to open up more questions than answers. :-)

 

All the best

Bill

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