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Remembered Today:

Tom M Cree 8th Black Watch


sadbrewer

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Hi 

   I've been offered a piece of, not exactly trench art, but an ID tag fastened to a watch type wrist band. Inscribed on it is some fancy decoration and the words..

Tom M Cree,

268834

8th Black Watch.

PRES

 

  I've trawled Ancestry and Findmypast and cannot find him, the closest I can get has the Service No S/8982 and is 3rd Batt.

  The leather is now pretty fragile and to me looks genuine, I just wonder if anyone can do better on an ID than I did.

Thanks.

   

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1 hour ago, sadbrewer said:

Hi 

   I've been offered a piece of, not exactly trench art, but an ID tag fastened to a watch type wrist band. Inscribed on it is some fancy decoration and the words..

Tom M Cree,

268834

8th Black Watch.

PRES

 

  I've trawled Ancestry and Findmypast and cannot find him, the closest I can get has the Service No S/8982 and is 3rd Batt.

  The leather is now pretty fragile and to me looks genuine, I just wonder if anyone can do better on an ID than I did.

Thanks.

   

 

There was a Tom M Cree, 150836 in the 8th (Service) Bn. Black Watch, who also went to the Labour Corps with number 117769. 

Prior to the Black Watch, he appears to have been in the 2/1st Scottish Horse.

 

Tom Mudie Cree.  There are some service details on FMP.  Seems to have been in a POW unit of the Labour Corps and finished the war as a WOII. 

 

Scotland's People has a Thomas Mudie Cree born 1896 in Dundee, presumably the same man. 

Married 1925 in Dundee and died 1977 in Dundee. 

 

Furthermore, if you go back to the ancestry website, you'll find photos of him (including one which is very clear) and he is also included in at least one family tree if not more.  Just search for the name 'Thomas Mudie Cree' and then go to photos or family trees or whatever and you should come across him.

Edited by Ron Abbott
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Hi,

 

It might be a coincidence, but the 6 digit 268834 number falls within the block allocated to the 6th Bn  in the 1917 renumbering of the TF - see here. It might be possible that he didn't serve overseas, hence no medals. I would have thought though that a transfer from the TF to the 8th Bn would have resulted in a new number being issued.

 

Regards

Chris

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14 minutes ago, clk said:

Hi,

 

It might be a coincidence, but the 6 digit 268834 number falls within the block allocated to the 6th Bn  in the 1917 renumbering of the TF - see here. It might be possible that he didn't serve overseas, hence no medals. I would have thought though that a transfer from the TF to the 8th Bn would have resulted in a new number being issued.

 

Regards

Chris

 

Post 1917 renumbering it seems that a posting from the TF to a service battalion should retain the same number

 

Quote

A TF soldier now retained this number as long as he continued to serve in a particular corps, even if he was posted to another TF or regular unit in that corps. He would only be renumbered if he transferred to another corps.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/

 

Craig

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Thanks Craig

 

42 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

A TF soldier now retained this number as long as he continued to serve in a particular corps, even if he was posted to another TF or regular unit in that corps. He would only be renumbered if he transferred to another corps.

 

I hadn't appreciated that.

 

Regards

Chris

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24 minutes ago, clk said:

Thanks Craig

 

 

I hadn't appreciated that.

 

Regards

Chris

I must say that I hadn't either until I read the link.

 

Craig

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Unfortunately there are input issues with indexing on ancestry.co.uk.

 

If I search for any man with surname Cree and regiment as either Black Watch or Royal Highlanders, nobody with first name Thomas/Tom/T comes up.

 

Input  'Tom M Cree' however and the first man surfacing is the Tom M Cree (of the 8th Bn. Black Watch and the Labour Corps) mentioned in my previous (above) post......but with regiment transcribed as 'R-Highlanders'.  You'll see a medal card for him.

 

If you play around with the search engine on ancestry, you'll also find the medal rolls pertaining to the man (under the name Tom Mudie Cree) and attestation papers.  Alternatively go to FMP (findmypast.com) as he's on there.

 

However for that man, the only numbers I am surfacing are 5703, 5705 (5703 appears to be an error), 150836 and 117769.

 

But.....if 5705 and 150836 were his numbers for the Scottish Horse and 117769 was his Labour Corps number.......what was his Black Watch number?

 

Unfortunately what is left of his service record is not whole.  There are tops of pages missing etc. 

But he definitely appears to have served in the 8th Black Watch between late July and early September 1917.

 

Perhaps one of those with knowledge of such matters could advise.  

Edited by Ron Abbott
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20 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

 

There was a Tom M Cree, 150836 in the 8th (Service) Bn. Black Watch, who also went to the Labour Corps with number 117769. 

Prior to the Black Watch, he appears to have been in the 2/1st Scottish Horse.

 

Tom Mudie Cree.  There are some service details on FMP.  Seems to have been in a POW unit of the Labour Corps and finished the war as a WOII. 

 

Scotland's People has a Thomas Mudie Cree born 1896 in Dundee, presumably the same man. 

Married 1925 in Dundee and died 1977 in Dundee. 

 

Furthermore, if you go back to the ancestry website, you'll find photos of him (including one which is very clear) and he is also included in at least one family tree if not more.  Just search for the name 'Thomas Mudie Cree' and then go to photos or family trees or whatever and you should come across him.

I'm still trying to decipher the military record which seems to have been "burnt" in annoyingly crucial places as far the actual service record is concerned. I realise that I have information about renumbering TF infantry and artillery but know nothing about the yeomanry. Tom Mudie Cree was transferred to the Black Watch on 2 July 1917. Could the six digit number be a Scottish Horse number?

He enlisted on 30 November 1915 but was nor mobilised until February 1917.

If I understand something in the record correctly there might be a pension card/ledger entry.

RM

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This page courtesy of FMP with an image filter applied would seem to suggest he was 268nnn in the BW. The fourth number looks like an 8 as wellcree.jpg.30a06a597ae50040587fde28b22384e2.jpg so I think he is the right man

Have made a quick search for a WFA card but cannot find one that relates to this soldier.

Edited by Mark1959
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1 hour ago, Mark1959 said:

This page courtesy of FMP with an image filter applied would seem to suggest he was 268nnn in the BW. The fourth number looks like an 8 as wellcree.jpg.30a06a597ae50040587fde28b22384e2.jpg so I think he is the right man

Have made a quick search for a WFA card but cannot find one that relates to this soldier.

 

ha ha.....well done, its an 8 alright and it evens looks as though the following digit is a 3. 

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