SS Leicestershire - collision with HM Yacht Kethailes

[Gonker44]

On 11 Oct 1917, HM Yacht Kethailes was sunk after a collsion with a ship near the Blackwater light vessel County Wexford. A few online reports state it was hit by the SS Leicestershire, heading for Liverpool. It also possibly picked up survivors. I'm looking to confirm this, and wonder if anyone in this forum has any information on this?

 

Report of HM Yacht Kethailes: 

 

 

"Standard" information of SS Leicestershire, replicated on many websites, no reference of a collision.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kath]

A bit about it here:

https://www.warsailors.com/gb8.html

Nov. 21, 

From: John Crawford

H.M. Yacht "Kethailes"

Good Morning,
The above 600 ton steam yacht was donated to the Great War effort as an armed patrol vessel. It sank in the Irish Sea after a collision on the 11th October, 1917, after which several bodies of the crew were washed up in the Barmouth area of North Wales, UK, one of which carried a tag inscribed with "J. Emery.P.O.RNR
129483".

And here:

https://firstworldwaronthisday.blogspot.com/2017/10/822-died-on-this-day-thu-11101917.html

Edited 16 July , 2019 by Kath
more

[horatio2]

53 minutes ago, Kath said:

which carried a tag inscribed with "J. Emery.P.O.RNR

Unlikely because Emery was a RN rating.

[Kath]

The second site ( https://firstworldwaronthisday.blogspot.com/2017/10/822-died-on-this-day-thu-11101917.html)

gives the correct name:

United Kingdom: Merionethshire LLANABER (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD (1) 
_________________________________________________________________ 
129483 Petty Officer JAMES AMERY (R.F.R./Ch./A/1116). H.M. Yacht "Kethailes." Royal Navy 

[Gonker44]

The Commander in charge of the Kethailes was Lt-Cmdr Sidney Reginald Lane RNR. Attached is his service record, noting him as being in command and "ship lost". There is also a single inlein report of an obvious enquiry "highest traditions of the Service. Officers and men acquitted" The next abbreviations are difficult, but then a reference number which appears to be 24845/18 - would this be the Enquiry reference? Could anyone assist here on where that may be located?

 

ADM-240-82-1581.pdfADM-240-82-1581.pdf

[horatio2]

9 minutes ago, Gonker44 said:

There is also a single inlein report of an obvious enquiry "highest traditions of the Service. Officers and men acquitted"

This refers to the loss by torpedo of his next ship, the sloop HMS COWSLIP, on 25 April 1918. Not a lucky captain.

[Gonker44]

15 hours ago, horatio2 said:

This refers to the loss by torpedo of his next ship, the sloop HMS COWSLIP, on 25 April 1918. Not a lucky captain.

Ah yes, thanks - I should have spotted that! 

[Gonker44]

I have been able to confirm from the Ships log of Patrol Boat P-44, available at the National Archives https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1520833 that Kethailes was indeed in a collision with SS Leicestershire. Will post more online soon, but it appears that P-44 was escorting Leicestershire when the collision occurred. P-44 recovered survivors, and also lifeboat & crew from Leicestershire who had presumably launched to help rescue Kethailes survivors. P-44 proceeded after search complete to Liverpool where the survivors were transferred to HMS Eagle the shore-based facility at Liverpool

Edited 12 August , 2019 by Gonker44

[horatio2]

I assume you have checked the other nine record cards for his service - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8291517

[Gonker44]

On 11/08/2019 at 11:05, horatio2 said:

I assume you have checked the other nine record cards for his service - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8291517

Yes we have but thanks for checking!

[Gonker44]

To update this thread, the National Archives recently (Nov 19) added the UK Hydrographic Office records.  The report of the collision and subsequent enquiry were held here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/dfc1de4a-5ce2-4eae-a853-df544fe7bd41

 

This now conclusively determines the cuase of HM Yacht Kethailes loss as being to a collision with SS Leicestershire. No negligence was apportioned.

 

The SS Leicestershire itself has an interesting history - being renamed the ZamZam in the 1930's and itself being sunk, although neutral, by a german commerce raider, Atlantis, in 1941: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamzam_(ship)

HD3038-1917 file Kethailes.pdf

Edited 31 May , 2020 by Gonker44

[Guest]

Hi all, just found this site with the info on the Kethailes, my great grandfather, Alfred Henry Abraham, was one of those drowned & his body was never recovered.

[horatio2]

15 minutes ago, Lisa Birch said:

Alfred Henry Abraham, was one of those drowned

Strangely, the MMR Medal Roll shows Steward Alfred ABRAHAM earning his British War Medal and Victory Medal in KETHAILES but records that he claimed them and they were issued to him personally. Impossible since he died in October 1917.

[Guest]

That's historic info for you! I only found this out this evening as Alfred was my nan's dad & I didn't know anything about it! My 3rd cousins enlightened me by Facetime tonight & I'm now on a high!

[Gonker44]

Hi, some new information

After 3+ years of research & following up wth the CWGC  I'm pleased to advise it has been accepted that one of the casualties, Able Seaman Frederick Dyer  is buried in St. Matthew Church, Borth. He had previously been buried as an unknown sailor, and had been mis-identified as potentally a casualty from another ship. A headstone is soon to be erected (July 2022) and a rededication ceremony in due course  https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/3043466/frederick-dyer/