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Jervis

The US World War 1 memorial & the Supreme Court

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Jervis

American humanists object to a 94 year old Christian World war 1 memorial. They brought their case all the way to the Supreme Court. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47874723

 

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-48710429

 

https://americanhumanist.org/honorthemall/faqs/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Tomb1302

This is a very delicate situation, but, I think it's quite ridiculous, personally.

 

The cross does not symbolize religion -per say-, but instead the fallen for an incredible cause.

 

I think people are being stubborn and ridiculous overlooking the intent of the cross [The soldiers who died], and instead focusing on the 21st Century 'Political Correctness' that we see more and more frequently.

 

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but, my own. Completely disregarding how religious I may or may not be.

Edited by Tomb1302

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David Filsell

What a strange nation the USA is. I would have though they had far more pertinent issues to address.

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Steven Broomfield
12 hours ago, Tomb1302 said:

This is a very delicate situation, but, I think it's quite ridiculous, personally.

 

 

I'd suggest it's not delicate, but it is ridiculous. The logical outcome of this, if the Humanists were to get their way, is that every US war grave across the world would need to be revisited to see if the soldier commemorated is/was a Christian. Every other American war memorial showing any religious symbol would presumably also need to be considered.

 

Actually, it's not ridiculous: it's utter bo$$ocks.

 

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Kath

One purpose of Memorials is to assuage grief.

The cross symbolises the hope/belief of the memorialist that their dead are in heaven.

Kath.

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PJS

Just to be clear, they lost their case:

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-cross-supreme-court-religion-cross-20190620-story.html

 

"In a 7-2 decision, the high court upheld the display of a nearly century-old, 40-foot cross that sits on public land at a busy Maryland intersection just a few miles east of Capitol Hill."

 

Peter

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Tomb1302
3 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

I'd suggest it's not delicate, but it is ridiculous. The logical outcome of this, if the Humanists were to get their way, is that every US war grave across the world would need to be revisited to see if the soldier commemorated is/was a Christian. Every other American war memorial showing any religious symbol would presumably also need to be considered.

 

Actually, it's not ridiculous: it's utter bo$$ocks.

 

The 'delicate' comes from how this will end. In the world we live in today, they have a case to potentially get it removed.

 

15 hours ago, Tomb1302 said:

I think people are being stubborn and ridiculous

 

Edit: Peter, this is good news.

Edited by Tomb1302

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Jervis

Reading their website, the mission of the American Humanists are to (a) defend civil liberties (b) promotes secular governance (c) advance the cause of the Humanist worldview

 

I am not sure which of these noble aims this court challenge was supposed to satisfy, but in the context of a 94 year memorial commemorating local war dead, this just comes across as really petty and very mean-spirited. 

 

It always amazes me, how some people who talk of tolerance, are actually the  most intolerant. 

Edited by Jervis

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ss002d6252

I understand the issues at play here. Can we make sure though that we try and keep the fine line without stepping off in to politics and other issues.

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healdav
4 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

I'd suggest it's not delicate, but it is ridiculous. The logical outcome of this, if the Humanists were to get their way, is that every US war grave across the world would need to be revisited to see if the soldier commemorated is/was a Christian. Every other American war memorial showing any religious symbol would presumably also need to be considered.

 

Actually, it's not ridiculous: it's utter bo$$ocks.

 

If you go to a US War cemetery, you will find quite a lot of Jewish Stars on graves which are marked unknowns.

Apparently, someone, somewhere calculated how many Jews there had been in the army, and that proportion of the Unknowns were given a Jewish designation!

This went on until Vietnam when a US General said he wasn't going to have Christian boys buried under Jewish symbols! So now all unknowns are Christian.

I have great fun when taking groups to US war cemeteries, and asking how they knew that a man 'unknown' was Jewish. At least one woman always come up with, "He was circumcised?". And it's always a woman.

Why it should be acceptable to bury Jews as Christians, but no the other way around, is a mystery (to me at least).

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voltaire60

   This looks like a fundamental mistake from the start.  The cross is a universally accepted symbol of Christianity. I note that CWGC uses grave markers not crosses, which shows that someone  early on (almost certainly Fabian Ware) was well aware of the dangers of squabbles over crosses being inappropriate for  many men, who were either not overtly Christian or whose religious beliefs could not be established as they were "Known Unto God".

   It seems a continuation in death of the  Sergeant-Major, Church Parade system which many old soldiers will recognize.  Not sure?  Then you are Cof E son-Get your kit smartened for Sunday.

     It is an oddity that a state whose constitution has in-built systems to avoid religious  bias should fall foul of the PC lobby through the use of crosses. But then, who could have predicted how the 21st Century PC lobby would emerge, let alone those a hundred years back?  I think that when US secularists keep attacking the use of the cross then there will be some fireworks. The US Supreme Court always contains some/majority of strict  constitutionalists-and the cross may well be a recurrent issue.

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Terry_Reeves
8 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

I'd suggest it's not delicate, but it is ridiculous. The logical outcome of this, if the Humanists were to get their way, is that every US war grave across the world would need to be revisited to see if the soldier commemorated is/was a Christian. Every other American war memorial showing any religious symbol would presumably also need to be considered.

 

Actually, it's not ridiculous: it's utter bo$$ocks.

 

My good friend the late  Sue Light was a humanist, but never objected to other beliefs or symbolisms. We shared the same views as do many other humanists,

 

 

TR

Edited by Terry_Reeves

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