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garfyboy

P1907 lithgow bayonet

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garfyboy

Hi folks

 

ive just picked up this from a pawn shop, I have a few p1907 bayonet but this one is a little different so any info would be great please......

marked LITHGOW, I believe this is Australian, some marking on the cross guard - 2 and ?? Looks like a line under a Id? Then M.D 66483, the pommel is marked with the mod arrow and number 20894, blade marked with the stars with a A inside plus LITHGOW and 1918.

the fittings on the scabbard look to be aluminium/alloy

If anyone would like any more info/pics please ask

 

andy

EC5B2205-EBA6-46A4-AAD3-03454903ABC7.jpeg

1EE0BD6A-230D-4B36-98E6-FDC1CDA34CCA.jpeg

A8F2E9FD-F1F5-4D64-9B34-4DDFCD35D033.png

9D4968D4-D7AA-49D2-9DD5-F1DCCC474998.png

115E143B-63F3-4B66-ACC4-54A8CFACE3D9.png

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reese williams

Yes, Australian production. The 2MD is for 2nd military district, and it appears to have been chrome plated at some point. Blades were often plated for ceremonial units such as color guards, or parade units.

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trajan

For the 2nd MD see e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Military_District_(Australia) , and for better detail see: https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/encyclopedia/military-districts

 

It does look to have been 'buffed-up' a bit. In addition to being 'chromed, those wood grips are surely after 1918  while what you see as MOD arrow looks like it was once a sold-out-of service mark?

 

In fact, there is something funny going on here... The serial number below that mark is different from the one on the crossguard... I wonder if it has been 'refurbished', an older pommel added to the tang and blade of the Lithgow?

 

But these are certainly NOT my field!

 

Julian

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JMB1943

Looking at these photos for about the third time, the thought occurred that wouldn’t the plated chrome be expected to equally cover the surface indentations (Lithgow, 1918, inspection stamps, etc) as well as the unmarked surface?

I have been told on this forum that the pommel of the Lithgow Bayonets was measurably longer than that of the British P.07’s.

The length of the British pommel should measure 1.425 inches = 36.195 mm.

An accurate reading of the pommel length on this bayonet may indicate which type of pommel it has.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

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msdt

Do not have access to much other than my notes at present, but looks like a standard Lithgow bayonet to me. The pommel mark is probably A 20994, the rifle number I think, while the 2nd MD number is the district inventory number.

Cheers,

Tony

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Chasemuseum
11 hours ago, trajan said:

In fact, there is something funny going on here... The serial number below that mark is different from the one on the crossguard... I wonder if it has been 'refurbished', an older pommel added to the tang and blade of the Lithgow?

The number on the pommel is the serial number from manufacture in 1918 and the serial number on the crossguard is from allocation to the military district in the 1920s. It is quite correct that these numbers are not the same (if they were the same, something would be seriously wrong). The scabbard appears to be WW2 manufacture and is likely to have markings, on the metal parts, a two character factory code - probably MA for the Lithgow factory or MO for the factory in the nearby town of Orange, and on the leather portion, a makers name and year. I stress likely - not all scabbards have visible markings, particularly if they have been refurbished as parade examples (dismantled, metal buffed and plated, leather buffed and lacquered).

 

It is what it is, a WW1 bayonet made at Lithgow, refurbished and reissued to the CMF (Citizen Military Forces) in the 1920s, remained in Australia as a 2nd grade weapon through WW2 on issue to the CMF or VDC and refurbished as a parade ground bayonet, either late in WW2 or in the late 40s/early 50s.  The SMLE Mk III remained in limited issue with the Australian Army until 1975 when the Army Cadets were disbanded and the 40,000 rifles on issue to cadet units were withdrawn to war reserves. The remaining stocks of rifles and bayonets were dispersed from war reserves in 1989. Since about 1992 the policy has been to destroy all surplus weapons which are not being transferred to a national government, rather than selling them on the international commercial markets.

Cheers

Ross

 

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trajan

Many thanks for the enlightenment Ross!:thumbsup:

 

Julian

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garfyboy

Many thanks for your replies folks, really interesting and now all makes sense , yes the broad arrow does seem to be a "A" and the plating now makes sense because of refurbishment for later use/parade use.

Pommel measure 37mm and no markings at all on scabbard leather or fittings.

 

Andy

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