Henry David Larner

[Guest]

My Granand  was Henry David Larner born in Stepney 1879 .He joined the London Regiment in 1916 and was wounded in 1918 and sent home.

Hs service record was lost as a burnt record. Does anybody know anything at all about him. I have  his medal card but thats it. Can anyone help.

John Larner

[MaxD]

If he is 295007 Henry David Larner, he served overseas (France) from 31 Mar 1917 to 26 Aug 1918 The medal roll associated with the card has that info.  He was with 4th Battalion (City of London) Battalion (Royal Fusiliers) - that is a battalion of the London Regiment despite the perhaps confusing title!

 

The war diary of the battalion can be downloaded from the National Archives for £3.50 here:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354938

If you have access to Ancestry it is here:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43849_2954_0-00000?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

 

Max

 

PS the battalion suffered, as well as men killed and missing, 150 soldiers wounded during the month

Edited 10 July , 2019 by MaxD

[HolymoleyRE]

Hello John, and welcome to the Forum. 

Presume we are talking about 295007 Private Henry David Larner 4th Battalion The London Regiment,

 

He served in France from 31st March 1917 to 26th August 1918. 

 

The London Regiment & The Royal Fusiliers always get me muddled up as they were two separate Regiments, however the 1/4th Battalion London Regiment were retitled the The 1/4th (City of London) Battalion (Royal Fusiliers). 

 

I sure I will be stood corrected if not.. 🙂

If so there is war history at the link below. 

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/50098

 

War Diary here. 

 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354938

 

Regards Andy

2 minutes ago, MaxD said:

that is a battalion of the London Regiment despite the perhaps confusing title!

Beat on the post Max and indeed almost the same comment... 😂

 

Andy 

[MaxD]

Added a snippet about casualties to my earlier post.  Always good to have confirmation!

Max

[PRC]

The actions of the period immediately preceding his medical evacuation are covered on page 292 - 294, (despite a sudden reference to March!), of The Royal Fusiliers in the Great War by H C O'Neill which can be read \ downloaded here: https://archive.org/details/royalfusiliersin00onei/page/n10

(Dont go backwards beyond the section heading "Bullecourt" as the preceding pages refer to the "other" 4th Royal Fusiliers !)

 

Similarly the official history of the 56th Division, (of which they were part), can be read here: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/50379/50379-h/50379-h.htm

Looks like pages 258 onwards, although it's all set out as one long script with side notes as to when the page starts in the book. Search for " The relief in the line was completed on the 18th August, and on the 19th the 169th Brigade was sent to Arras to carry out preparations for an attack on Orange and Chapel Hills. "

 

Cheers,

Peter

[clk]

Hi John,

 

1 hour ago, Mary Larner said:

He joined the London Regiment in 1916 and was wounded in 1918 and sent home

 

May I ask how you know that?

 

His 295007 service number falls within the number block allocated to the line units of the 4th Battalion under the general renumbering of the TF in 1917 - see here. Files for a couple of men that bracket his number (295005 Scuse, and 295011 Nicholls) suggest that they were renumbered on 14.5.1917 having been sent overseas and whilst at 9 Infantry Base Depot in Etaples. What that would seem to imply is that given his medal roll overseas date of 31.3.1917, Henry served 'at home' with a unit other than the 1/4 Bn, probably under a 4 digit number, prior to being sent overseas. Scuse appears to have disembarked in France on 30.3.1917 as a 21st (Reserve) Bn [3/21?] man. Nicholls appears to have been a 3/17 [?] Bn man, posted to 1/17 Bn on 30.3.1917 for overseas service. Albeit a very limited sample, what that might suggest is that Henry was one of several men that formed a draft of men drawn from the reserve battalions of the London Regiment. I didn't find a medal roll record for Nicholls, but the one for Scuse (link) does note initial overseas being with the 21st Bn. I wonder if the lack of any other overseas Bn on Henry's roll record might point towards him being drafted direct from the 4th (Reserve) Battalion. Wider number sampling may help to establish a likely pattern of events.

 

Regards

Chris

 

[MaxD]

The  overseas dates are recorded in the medal roll, 31 Mar 1917 to 28 Aug 1918.  No comment on wounded.

 

Max 

 

[clk]

Thanks Max.

 

45 minutes ago, MaxD said:

The  overseas dates are recorded in the medal roll, 31 Mar 1917 to 28 Aug 1918.  No comment on wounded.

 

What I was getting at, was John said..

16 hours ago, Mary Larner said:

My Granand  was Henry David Larner... joined the London Regiment in 1916 and was wounded in 1918 and sent home.

Hs service record was lost as a burnt record... I have  his medal card but thats it.

 

I wondered how he knew those dates, if he just had the MIC. 

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be one of the straightforward TF cases where you can get to a decent guess for an original date of enlistment, based on surviving records for near number men. The records I looked at suggest that the men were already in France and that a draft to the 4th Battalion in May 1917 was taken (albeit perhaps notionally at the IBD) from other London Battalions. Where I got to was...

 

 

Regards

Chris

[MaxD]

Indeed Chris, I really must pay more attention, I had already mentioned the roll dates in my first post as did you in post #6 so my later post was totally irrelevant.  Your suggestion as to his earlier service is, as always, on the money I'm sure.

 

Perhaps John will have had a family story about the 1916 date.

 

Best 

 

Max

[kenf48]

Given his year of birth, if married and assuming he did not appeal to the Local Tribunal, he would have been called up for service in May 1916.  

There was an undertaking that single men would be called up and sent to the front first, hence his posting to a TF unit.

His overseas posting coincides with the 'manpower crisis' in France following the losses of 1916 when men were 'combed out' of the Reserve units of the London Regiment, i.e. 21st, 22nd etc. (see LLT)

 

Ken