Trooper B Posted 1 July , 2019 Share Posted 1 July , 2019 Hi all, I am trying to research a Gunner who was killed whilst serving with XV Bde HQ RHA on 30th Nov 1917 at the Battle of Cambrai. I know the Bde was with 29th Division and two of its battery’s B&L performed heroically......I’m just not sure where and where in relation to the guns would th brigade HQ have been positioned? Any pointers or info greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 1 July , 2019 Share Posted 1 July , 2019 The History of 29th Div Artillery records [which also lists all casualties] indicate batteries were on the right of 29 Div line in the Vacquerie Valley, probably supporting 86th Inf Brigade .. behind Boavis Ridge [from where infantry were retiring]. 17th Bde RFA and 232nd Bde on left, both in Couillet wood valley. I dont have the war diary which may provide more detailed records, and maps. [as may 29 Div diaries, 29 Div Artillery diaries] I see a few 15 Bde HQ casualties.. .. Cpl J McIntyre REsignaller? w.; Gnr Pullen [missing]; Gnr Winter [missing]; l/Bdr Bird [missing/POW]; a/RSM F D Brown [w.]; Drvr W Hayward [missing/POW]; Drvr J W Lemmon [missing/POW], and plenty of B, L and Warwicks RHA casualties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper B Posted 2 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 2 July , 2019 Thanks for the info batti! I’m quite new to the research side of things, is there a published history of 29th Division or is it all gleaned from War diaries? To that end, do you know if a war diary for xv Bde for the Cambrai period exists? The person I am trying to identify is 175114 Gnr James Bird, listed on the Cambrai memorial. Odd that you have identified a L/Bdr Bird missing/POW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 2 July , 2019 Share Posted 2 July , 2019 (edited) Trooper B, There is a War Diary for 15th Brigade RHA for November 30, 1917. The important paragraph transcribed here: " Unfortunately events had been moving rapidly in our rear. At about 9:30 am the enemy occupied GOUZEAUCORT QUARRY (Bde HQ Wagon Lines). R.S.M. Brown, Cpl. Sykes, RE, Gnr. Holyoak, Dr. Heyword, Gr. Pullen, Gr. Newman, Dr. Lemon, Gr. Bird, Dr. Ward, ASC were captured. Of them, the following escaped - R.S.M. Brown (wounded), Gr. Bird (killed)." So it looks very much like Gunner James Bird was captured but then killed whilst an escapee. Also, this information could only have come from R.S.M. Brown. Edited 3 July , 2019 by David Porter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 2 July , 2019 Share Posted 2 July , 2019 Hi Trooper B, The CRA 29 Division diary (Ancestry link) has: Image sourced from Ancestry.co.uk If needed there is help on reading map references here. On Ancestry. the Brigade diary for November 1917 starts here. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 2 July , 2019 Share Posted 2 July , 2019 (edited) re Bird The ICRC PoW Record has two sheets for him. Index card is here Edited- not the same man ? But died taken same day and same HQ ?? No 69645 Here is 69645 a/Bdr Edward Claudius Bird, who survived . He was captured 30/11/17 Cambrai with HQ 15 Bde RHA. So you need to be careful which Bird is mentioned in which record !! This is SDGW for your man. CWGC says 15th Bde HQ, RHA First name(s) James Last name Bird Service number 175114 Rank Gunner Regiment Royal Horse Artillery And Royal Field Artillery Battalion - Battalion details - Residence - Birth place Hatfield Broad Oak, Essex Enlistment place Stratford-On-Avon Death year 1917 Death day 30 Death month 11 Cause of death Killed in action Edited 2 July , 2019 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 2 July , 2019 Share Posted 2 July , 2019 The Chelmsford Chronicle 11/1/18 (thanks to FindmyPast here), reports thus: This is clearly 175114. No mentionof him being captured then escaping so confusion ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper B Posted 3 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2019 Thanks very much all of you, I can’t believe the info produced so quickly! The gun positions will help and the diary entry on his escaping before being killed is intriguing! The news paper report is definitely my man, I’m just wondering whether his CO’s letter explaining the circumstances of his death is just typical of time, trying to make the difficult task of breaking the news as comforting as possible! once again thanks all! Trooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 3 July , 2019 Share Posted 3 July , 2019 David Forgive me - I think a typo has crept in to your post #4 above. You wrote RFA when I think you must have meant RHA - for the avoidance of doubt and possible further confusion!! Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 3 July , 2019 Share Posted 3 July , 2019 Thanks Max, corrected now. Not a typo, genuine laziness, I use RFA far more often and it just slipped in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 3 July , 2019 Share Posted 3 July , 2019 apologies that i had not noted both Birds - who are indeed both named in the 29th Div Artillery record. L/Bdr E C Bird 69645 - missing POW and Gnr J Bird 175114, killed. The 29th Div is unusual in having a volume devoted to its Artillery: "29th Divisional Artillery War Record and Honours Book 1915-1918". by LtCol R M Johnson. published Woolwich 1921. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper B Posted 4 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2019 Thanks once again Battiscombe, guess that’s sorted my weekend trying to find a copy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 4 July , 2019 Share Posted 4 July , 2019 4 minutes ago, Trooper B said: trying to find a copy! Naval Military Press reprint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 4 July , 2019 Share Posted 4 July , 2019 Hi, If you have an account with Forces War Records (I don't think that you have to have a current subscription, I haven't), it looks like you can download a pdf version for 3 quid. Image sourced from FWR Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper B Posted 4 July , 2019 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2019 Thanks Charlie & clk, that’s made things easier for me, I dread to think how long it would have taken me on my own to find that out!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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