ryandunny Posted 26 June , 2019 Share Posted 26 June , 2019 Hi. I was wondering if anyone could identify these shells by looking at them? At least, if they are German, British or French? I don't have them at hand at the moment for measurements but I can get these later if needed. Thanks, Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryandunny Posted 26 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2019 Am I right in thinking the Germans used thinner driving bands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 26 June , 2019 Share Posted 26 June , 2019 Left: British MkII 18 Pounder shrapnel shell. Right: German 7,7cm F. Schr. 96 (umg) shrapnel shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 July , 2019 Share Posted 9 July , 2019 On 26/06/2019 at 14:29, peregrinvs said: Left: British MkII 18 Pounder shrapnel shell. Right: German 7,7cm F. Schr. 96 (umg) shrapnel shell. Heck, how do you do that? What are the clues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 Pretty simple really: I own complete examples of both.😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 And the clues are....???? What I mean here is that if you showed me a piece of pottery and I identified it as a piece from a Dragendorff 30, made at La Graufesenque in the Flavian period, then an obvious follow-up would be - "How do you know that?" And I would explain.... So, pretty please, what tells YOU that the the one shell is this and the other is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 trajan, everyone who is a bit familiar with those things knows that just out of seeing that many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 The drive bands are a massive clue J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 Yes, I get you - but for the unitiated.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 I can tell the left one is an 18pr shrapnel from the shape of the drive band, the diameter and the thickness of the metal. I can tell the right one is a 7,7cm shrapnel from the shape, diameter, thickness of the metal and the distinctive grooves in the base into which the case was crimped. Just knowledge acquired from experience basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 10 July , 2019 Share Posted 10 July , 2019 Just for fun, here’s some before’n’after pics of a 7,7cm shrapnel shell I recently restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 July , 2019 Share Posted 11 July , 2019 Many thanks! I had assumed it was the drive bands, but nice to have it confirmed! That is an excellent piece of restoration! How on earth did you get all that crud off the original find? Electrolysis? I wouldn't mind getting my single shrapnel case looking a tad better - viewable at: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/266338-shrapnel-shell-case-id-please/?tab=comments#comment-2700098 Julian Oh, and yes, that one in no.9 is a Dr 30, but Lezouz rather than La Graufesenque - the matt rather than glossy slip and blurred figures is the give-away, late 1st/early 2nd century AD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServiceRumDiluted Posted 11 July , 2019 Share Posted 11 July , 2019 2 hours ago, trajan said: Oh, and yes, that one in no.9 is a Dr 30, but Lezouz rather than La Graufesenque - the matt rather than glossy slip and blurred figures is the give-away, late 1st/early 2nd century AD... Thought so... 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 11 July , 2019 Share Posted 11 July , 2019 2 hours ago, trajan said: Oh, and yes, that one in no.9 is a Dr 30, but Lezouz rather than La Graufesenque - the matt rather than glossy slip and blurred figures is the give-away, late 1st/early 2nd century AD... And thanks for that little glimpse into a whole other field of knowledge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 July , 2019 Share Posted 11 July , 2019 6 hours ago, ServiceRumDiluted said: Thought so... 😉 6 hours ago, MikB said: And thanks for that little glimpse into a whole other field of knowledge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 11 July , 2019 Share Posted 11 July , 2019 13 hours ago, trajan said: That is an excellent piece of restoration! How on earth did you get all that crud off the original find? Electrolysis? I wouldn't mind getting my single shrapnel case looking a tad better - viewable at: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/266338-shrapnel-shell-case-id-please/?tab=comments#comment-2700098 Thank you. It was a Citric acid bath and lots of wire brush scrubbing. A slower but gentler method of cleaning yours would be to immerse it in diluted Molasses for a month or two. Chemically cleaned corroded steel tends to be a dull grey colour, so you’d probably want to polish it afterwards. I use a wire brush wheel on an electric drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 12 July , 2019 Share Posted 12 July , 2019 Thanks. I have heard of the molasses method but have never tried it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 12 July , 2019 Share Posted 12 July , 2019 12 hours ago, trajan said: Thanks. I have heard of the molasses method but have never tried it... I recently used diluted molasses to de-rust a dug WWII German steel 8,8cm KwK43 cartridge case. (Supposedly disinterred during roadworks in Budapest - it does have dried tar inside it) It took nearly 2 months, but the results were good. Patiently ignoring it seems to be the trick. There’s some interesting chemistry involved. Apparently there’s a chemical in the molasses that ‘grabs’ the Oxygen atom from the Iron Oxide molecules = the rust slowly dissolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 12 July , 2019 Share Posted 12 July , 2019 Does cane or beet molasses produce any differing results? I’m about to try this method and have a gallon of beet molasses in the shed J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 12 July , 2019 Share Posted 12 July , 2019 39 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: Does cane or beet molasses produce any differing results? I’m about to try this method and have a gallon of beet molasses in the shed J No idea I’m afraid. It was just some horse molasses from a local tack shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 12 July , 2019 Share Posted 12 July , 2019 That’ll be beet molasses from a tack shop then....I shall report back later........patience is a virtue as I’m sure the gentle persuasion with a steel brush on the grinder will be J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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