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hen190782

Military Cross

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hen190782
Posted (edited)

Good Afternoon

 

I am researching Lieutenant Edward Workman MC and have been in contact with the owner of the family archive of letters.

 

I have been advised that, where the man awarded an MC had died in the action, the medal was not issued to next of kin.

 

Question: was it practice to not send medals to the NoK in the case of posthumous awards?

 

On reading further, it seems that there was no public investiture of medals to the relatives of posthumous recipients, except for the Victoria Cross

 

Thanks

 

Nigel

Edited by hen190782

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Droocoo

Nigel,

 

Until 1979 the Military Cross was not awarded posthumously. I believe that if the soldier had died after the incident either from wounds or as a result of other causes, the Military Cross would still be issued to the next of kin. 

 

Kindest Regards,

 

Andrew

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clk

Hi Nigel,

 

I hope that these help.

 

image.png.056df6e6589cec449b07f14559e51678.png

Image sourced from the National Archives

image.png.55df230a01ac270cbb57b10bd8661b43.png

Image sourced from the National Archives

 

Regards

Chris

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hen190782
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Droocoo said:

Nigel,

 

Until 1979 the Military Cross was not awarded posthumously. I believe that if the soldier had died after the incident either from wounds or as a result of other causes, the Military Cross would still be issued to the next of kin. 

 

Kindest Regards,

 

Andrew

Thanks Andrew

13 minutes ago, clk said:

Hi Nigel,

 

I hope that these help.

 

image.png.056df6e6589cec449b07f14559e51678.png

Image sourced from the National Archives

image.png.55df230a01ac270cbb57b10bd8661b43.png

Image sourced from the National Archives

 

Regards

Chris

Thanks, Chris, I had the citation but was not aware of that other document - would you provide a link please.

 

Regards

 

Nigel

Edited by hen190782

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clk

Hi Nigel,

 

It's in this download.

 

Regards

Chris

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hen190782
8 minutes ago, clk said:

Hi Nigel,

 

It's in this download.

 

Regards

Chris

Thanks. Chris

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David_Underdown
Posted (edited)

Strictly speaking when talking of posthumous awards the issue comes down to whether you were killed in the course of the action for which an a recommendation for a gallantry award was to be made.  During the First World War in that situation the only awards available were the VC or a Mention in Despatches, in 1979 that was changed to allow all grades of award to be made.  Where people often get confused is that it was perfectly possible for you carry out an action, be recommended for an award, and then be killed before the award had been confirmed.  People often talk (incorrectly) about this being a posthumous award, Wilfred Owen's MC being a prominent example, the award was for his actions on 1-2 October 1918 and he was killed just over a month later - plenty of time for the paperwork to go in.  In Second World War cases I've seen that sometimes a recommendation might be made for an earlier action even after someone was subsequently killed, but the recommending officer had to give his word that he would have made the recommendation regardless of the man's later death, and it had been delayed only by the exigencies of service.

Edited by David_Underdown

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hen190782
3 minutes ago, David_Underdown said:

Strictly speaking when talking of posthumous awards the issue comes down to whether you were killed in the course of the action for which an a recommendation for a gallantry award was to be made.  During the First World War in that situation the only awards available were the VC or a Mention in Despatches, in 1979 that was changed to allow all grades of award to be made.  Where people often get confused is that it was perfectly possible for you carry out an action, be recommended for an award, and then be killed before the award had been confirmed.  People often talk (incorrectly) about this being a posthumous award, Wilfred Owen's MC being a prominent example, the award was for his actions on 1-2 October 1918 and he was killed just over a month later - plenty of time for the paperwork to go in.  In Second World War cases I've seen that sometimes a recommendation might be made for an earlier action even after someone was subsequently killed, but the recommending officer had to give his word that he would have made the recommendation regardless of the man's later death, and it had been delayed only by the exigencies of service.

Thanks, David.  Edward Workman was wounded on 19th January, died of wounds on 26th January and MC was gazetted on 15th March. So, if he had died on 19th January he would not have been recommended for the MC?

 

Nigel

 

P.s. do you have a photograph of the Bangor Parish Church Bell Ringers Roll of Honour?

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David_Underdown

Nigel,

 

As I understand the position that is correct, he could at most have been Mentioned in Despatches had he actually died on 19 January.

 

Is that Bangor, Northern Ireland? I don't have one myself though I suspect that Alan Regin who looks after the rolls of honour may well do.

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hen190782
1 minute ago, David_Underdown said:

Nigel,

 

As I understand the position that is correct, he could at most have been Mentioned in Despatches had he actually died on 19 January.

 

Is that Bangor, Northern Ireland? I don't have one myself though I suspect that Alan Regin who looks after the rolls of honour may well do.

Yes, Bangor, Northern Ireland. If you want a copy, let me know.

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rflory

In researching Royal Artillery MCs I have come across a few cases where the man died of wounds received during the action for which he received the MC but he lived long enough for the MC recommendation to be submitted before his death.

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Boyd
On 22/06/2019 at 16:51, hen190782 said:

Good Afternoon

 

I am researching Lieutenant Edward Workman MC and have been in contact with the owner of the family archive of letters.

 

I have been advised that, where the man awarded an MC had died in the action, the medal was not issued to next of kin.

 

Question: was it practice to not send medals to the NoK in the case of posthumous awards?

 

On reading further, it seems that there was no public investiture of medals to the relatives of posthumous recipients, except for the Victoria Cross

 

Thanks

 

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

slightly off topic but important! - I wanted to thank you for the recent photo you sent me of Francis Curran 5 Canadian Mounted Rifles. I tried to reply directly to the email you sent but got a fatal error - just didn’t don’t want you to think it was taken for granted. You offer a fantastic service 

kind Regards 

boyd 

E326220E-912B-4C9B-82B8-0458F6D2D0BE.jpeg

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hen190782
9 hours ago, Boyd said:

Hi Nigel,

slightly off topic but important! - I wanted to thank you for the recent photo you sent me of Francis Curran 5 Canadian Mounted Rifles. I tried to reply directly to the email you sent but got a fatal error - just didn’t don’t want you to think it was taken for granted. You offer a fantastic service 

kind Regards 

boyd 

E326220E-912B-4C9B-82B8-0458F6D2D0BE.jpeg

Thanks, Boyd. Not sure what happened with email rejection.

10 hours ago, rflory said:

In researching Royal Artillery MCs I have come across a few cases where the man died of wounds received during the action for which he received the MC but he lived long enough for the MC recommendation to be submitted before his death.

Thanks, Rory

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