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munchkin

interpret card and unit

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munchkin

Good morning all,

 

Images attached for my GG (Patrick May) who i know was in the RE from his MIC. He has two numbers (T) 3456 & 476912 on his pension card but his Attestation are in the burnt documents and do not survive. I am intrigued as to why he is granted a pension, but i cannot understand the military terminology, so are asking for help please. Also, there is no mention of his regiment other than RE, can you help with this too please?

Many thanks

 

WW1 Pension Ledger Index Card FRONT.jpg

WW1 Pension Ledger Index Card REAR.jpg

Medal Index Card.jpg

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ss002d6252

His pension claim was paid on a small level of disability, 15%, but the exact reason is commonly not noted. Pensions at this level were not generally paid for any great length of time. The problem to some extent is that these cards were only really used for a relatively short period of time and the main details held within the actual pension file.


Craig

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EDWARD1

Numbers 476001-478000 West Riding of Yorkshire TFA, 1st West Riding Field Company. 455FC (1 W Riding FC ) served 29th Div. 458FC (2/1 W Riding FC) served 49th Div.

461FC (3/1 West Riding FC) served 62nd Div

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clk

Hi munchkin,

 

His 6 digit 476912 number is a 1917 TF renumber issued from the number block associated with the line units of the 1st West Riding Field Company - i.e 1/1; 2/1; and 3/1 (see here).  The units were renumbered - 1/1 to 455th Field Company, 2/1 to 458 Field Company, and 3/1 to 461 Field Company (as per EDWARD1 above). However, once allocated his number he may have moved units, taking his number with him. For example this can illustrated by the CWGC records where some men with 476*** numbers are shown as:

 

476008 BUTCHER Royal Engineers 458th Field Coy.
476077 PRESTON Royal Engineers 225th Field Coy
476079 BISHOP Royal Engineers 49th Div. Signal Coy.
476135 JENNETT Royal Engineers 97th Field Coy.
476154 TYRRELL Royal Engineers 456th Field Coy.
476164 HOUGHTON Royal Engineers 456th Field Coy.
476325 SHINKINS Royal Engineers 146th Army Troops Coy.
476345 ASLING Royal Engineers 92nd Field Coy.
476467 BROWN Royal Engineers 90th Field Coy.
476509 HOLMES Royal Engineers 490th Field Coy.
476527 MANN Royal Engineers 406th Field Coy.
476694 MAWSON Royal Engineers 526th Field Coy.
476749 MAYO Royal Engineers 456th (East Riding) Field Coy.
476827 BOOCOCK Royal Engineers 40th Div. H.Q.
476850 GOODWIN Royal Engineers 122nd Field Coy.
476889 MORAN Royal Engineers 226th Field Coy.
476900 HAMMOND Royal Engineers 448th Northumbrian Field Coy.
476967 TAYLOR Royal Engineers 20th (T.F.) Depot
476972 WOODFORD Royal Engineers 464th Field Coy.

 

Under the 1917 TF renumbering, what you tend to see is that within a unit the 6 digit numbers were issued sequentially (allowing for 'fall outs') based on previous 4 digit numbers. Patrick doesn't appear to have surviving service papers. There are some though which show:

 

3030/476887 Monteath joined 25.8.1915

????/476899 Jackson joined 16.9.1915

3456/476912

3547/476930 Knowles joined 19.10.1915

 

Regards

Chris

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munchkin

Firstly, many thanks for all your work in finding out information for me. Second, it is a shame that his papers do not survive as this would have given so much info that i don't know. Does anyone know if any of the forum members has a copy of the war diary for the 1st West Riding Field Company bu any chance? I assume that from the very close numbers he joined in aug / sept 1915 ish and it would be good to know where he was on the front for the rest of the war.

 

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clk
Posted (edited)

Hi munchkin,

 

War diaries for the line units of the 1st West Riding FC do exist...

 

the 1st line (aka 1/1, or dropping the '1/' just shortened to 1st West Riding FC), renamed to 455 Field Company is here

the 2nd line (aka 2/1), renamed to 458 Field Company is here

the 3rd line (aka 3/1), renamed to 461 Field Company is here

 

They will also be available from Ancestry - search page here

 

Unfortunately though, In the absence of other records I can't be confident which of the three line units he may have served overseas with, as the units would have been renumbered from the same number block. The correlation between previous 4 digit and 6 digit renumbers doesn't help either (other than to date when he likely joined up). Pre war the line units didn't exist. There was only the 1st West Riding FC. The separation/creation of the line units happened after the outbreak of the war. However (I believe) the 4 digit numbers of men in the line units was based on a continuation of the number sequence previously used pre war by the 1st West Riding FC.

 

The only other things that I think that you can reasonably presume from his medal records are:

  • He didn't serve overseas in active theatre until after 1915 - otherwise there should be an entitlement to a 'Star' medal noted.
  • He was probably in active theatre prior to the 1917 renumbering. If he weren't the medal records would often omit his previous 4 digit number as it wouldn't have been relevant to his medal awards.

Regards

Chris

 

Edit:

There seems to be a family tree on Ancestry (link), which if correct suggests that he had a daughter born (from a second marriage) during WW1.

image.png.d97df82742160ad0f80ca9d1c112927b.png

Image sourced from Ancestry.co.uk

 

That would tend to suggest that he was in the UK circa September 1916 (either not having ventured overseas at that time, or on leave), and again in July 1917. As a really long shot on the birth certificate under "fathers occupation", it might note a specific unit.

 

Edited by clk

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munchkin
Posted (edited)

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for the link (its me) :-) 

 

Interesting that my Aunt beatrice birth cert might have a reference to my GG unit, I have ordered from the GRO and i will let you know.

 

Many thanks

Edited by munchkin

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