JMB1943 Posted 21 June , 2019 Share Posted 21 June , 2019 (edited) Here is another one of those "what is this piece of equipment?" puzzlers. Shiny, dark-colored, cylindrical object of about mid-thigh height at extreme left of photo as you look at it. It seems to me to be fluted, so I think not a compressed gas cylinder. If this is an apparently undamaged farm/factory building, perhaps the object is not military. Finally, for a raiding party there seems to be a lack of wire-cutters, grenades etc, although the box at RHS could be of grenades. Regards, JMB Edited 21 June , 2019 by JMB1943 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 22 June , 2019 Share Posted 22 June , 2019 JMB, Rather than the object being fluted I wonder if it is actually a short tripod perhaps for a machine gun. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted 22 June , 2019 Share Posted 22 June , 2019 The box on the right hand side is a grenade box , I have one in the loft of 1942 vintage but same type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 22 June , 2019 Share Posted 22 June , 2019 (edited) I don't know what the mystery object is but here's another photo of the same group captioned Raiding Party, Manchester Regiment, July 1918. One of the grenades is a No. 23. Someone's shaving in the background! ETA: Not sure if the caption's right as the badge on the helmets in the other photo looks very like Welsh Guards. Edited 22 June , 2019 by wainfleet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 22 June , 2019 Share Posted 22 June , 2019 This copy of the first photo might be easier to interpret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootrock Posted 22 June , 2019 Share Posted 22 June , 2019 Chap handing out the gernades has medal ribbons, and a badge on his arm. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radlad Posted 22 June , 2019 Share Posted 22 June , 2019 That picture looks staged to me. Not enough equipment around . I would have thought they would have donned water bottles and ammunition pouches before loading rifles. The 'mystery object' in the bottom left corner is a gas cylinder. light and shadow is breaking up the surface . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 22 June , 2019 Share Posted 22 June , 2019 12 minutes ago, Radlad said: That picture looks staged to me. Not enough equipment around . I would have thought they would have donned water bottles and ammunition pouches before loading rifles. The 'mystery object' in the bottom left corner is a gas cylinder. light and shadow is breaking up the surface . Raiding parties were supposed to be lightly equipped as the idea was to be mobile, agile and in the enemy trenches for not more than a minute or two. A full magazine, a couple of extra clips, two Mills bombs and possibly a cotton bandolier is the most they would have taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 23 June , 2019 Share Posted 23 June , 2019 My initial response which suggests a type of tripod is based on the right side of the object. I can understand the assertion that it may be a "gas bottle" but of what type or purpose? I wonder if the right side of the object is possibly one leg of a folded tripod kicking out slightly, the pale stripe adjacent (and parallel) to it being the background behind it. The reflected "stripe" up the centre could be that of a second leg with the 'splay' of light at its top end being where the pressing of the leg receives its nut and bolt fitting which allows it to pivot. On the other hand, can anybody explain what type of "gas bottle" it may be and of course its purpose, I don't imagine it was for adding CO2 to the local lager. The mention of the "Manchesters" may stem from the badge on the grenade dealers sleeve, it resembles a Mcrs badge but in my view isn't. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 23 June , 2019 Share Posted 23 June , 2019 The sleeve grenade is simply a Warrant Officer's rank badge. Some of the men have arc-shaped cloth titles at the top of their sleeves, which is a good fit for the Welsh Guards if navy blue shows light on orthochromatic film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14276265 Posted 23 June , 2019 Share Posted 23 June , 2019 19 minutes ago, mancpal said: On the other hand, can anybody explain what type of "gas bottle" it may be and of course its purpose, I don't imagine it was for adding CO2 to the local lager. It looks like the right size of air cylinder for a Strombos horn (gas alarm). 265 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 23 June , 2019 Share Posted 23 June , 2019 Sleeve grenade? What I was trying to infer was the that the WOs sleeve badge could be misinterpreted as a Manchesters badge by the unfamiliar. Does anybody have an image of a strombos gas bottle to compare with the OPs original photo. Also, would a raiding party carry such equipment? Can the grenade dealers medal ribbons be identified and thus dated? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 23 June , 2019 Share Posted 23 June , 2019 Plenty about the Strombo Horn here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 23 June , 2019 Share Posted 23 June , 2019 2 hours ago, mancpal said: Sleeve grenade? What I was trying to infer was the that the WOs sleeve badge could be misinterpreted as a Manchesters badge by the unfamiliar. Does anybody have an image of a strombos gas bottle to compare with the OPs original photo. Also, would a raiding party carry such equipment? Can the grenade dealers medal ribbons be identified and thus dated? Simon I meant "sleeve badge"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 23 June , 2019 Share Posted 23 June , 2019 I thought so. Do you see what I mean about the badge resembling a Mcrs badge? I'm certain it isn't but suspect this may be where the 'labelling' as Mcrs arises from. In fact it looks more like the General Service badge to me. Any thoughts on the medal ribbons? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 24 June , 2019 Share Posted 24 June , 2019 I can just about see how someone might have thought that, though if they knew enough to recognise a Manchesters badge, you'd think they would know it didn't go on the lower sleeve. I can't offer any thoughts on the ribbons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 24 June , 2019 Share Posted 24 June , 2019 Here is another photo which appears to be in the same sequence and location to throw into the pot captioned Meteren, France. c. 1918. 11th Bn. Royal Scots about to embark on a daylight raid removing their personal belongings, pay books and identity discs. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 24 June , 2019 Share Posted 24 June , 2019 On 22/06/2019 at 12:23, wainfleet said: I don't know what the mystery object is but here's another photo of the same group captioned Raiding Party, Manchester Regiment, July 1918. One of the grenades is a No. 23. Someone's shaving in the background! ETA: Not sure if the caption's right as the badge on the helmets in the other photo looks very like Welsh Guards. The above photo can be found in the Imperial war museums collection captioned A Regimental Sergeant Major of 11th Royal Scots hands out Mills bombs to a raiding party at Meteren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 25 June , 2019 Share Posted 25 June , 2019 Also interesting to see SMLEs wrapped in the hessian bags, presumably for for transport. Great pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootrock Posted 25 June , 2019 Share Posted 25 June , 2019 Would a raiding party have carried rifles? I thought knives and clubs were the preferred weapons for close quarter combat. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 7 August , 2019 Author Share Posted 7 August , 2019 (edited) My apologies for this delayed response. Many thanks to all who contributed their thoughts to the thread. Regards, JMB Edited 7 August , 2019 by JMB1943 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 7 August , 2019 Share Posted 7 August , 2019 On 25/06/2019 at 10:28, tootrock said: Would a raiding party have carried rifles? I thought knives and clubs were the preferred weapons for close quarter combat. Martin My thought too. Rifle and bayonet is a bit unwieldy in the confines of a trench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Hall Posted 8 August , 2019 Share Posted 8 August , 2019 Any covering parties would have carried rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 8 August , 2019 Share Posted 8 August , 2019 20 hours ago, squirrel said: My thought too. Rifle and bayonet is a bit unwieldy in the confines of a trench. They certainly did have rifles and bayonets. If you read the various instructions on grenade use they often give the composition of a raiding group including 'bayonet men' who worked with the bombers making sure wounded Germans stayed down. The squads also had a couple of men with rifle grenades. A raiding squad could be made up as follows No 1 & 2 Bayonet men No 3 & 4 Grenade throwers No 5 Officer or NCO No 6 & 7 Reserve throwers No 8 & 9 Rifle bombers No 10 reserve Bayonet man - May also act as look out and sniper. They would work a trench in this order. Source - Training and employment of bombers 1916 Raids would of course vary in content but often the only person with a pistol would be the leader. What the photos don't show are the canvas buckets for grenades carried by the reserve throwers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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