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JMB1943

Raiding Party Photo

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JMB1943
Posted (edited)

Here is another one of those "what is this piece of equipment?" puzzlers.

Shiny, dark-colored, cylindrical object of about mid-thigh height at extreme left of photo as you look at it.

It seems to me to be fluted, so I think not a compressed gas cylinder.

If this is an apparently undamaged farm/factory building, perhaps the object is not military.

Finally, for a raiding party there seems to be a lack of wire-cutters, grenades etc, although the box at RHS could be of grenades.

Regards,

JMB

Raiding-1.jpg.3dcc2d67731e0e6c323d6349fcf9e1a3.jpg

Edited by JMB1943

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mancpal

JMB,

 

Rather than the object being fluted I wonder if it is actually a short tripod perhaps for a machine gun.

 

Simon

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bigjohn

The box on the right hand side is a grenade box , I have one in the loft  of 1942 vintage but same type.

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wainfleet
Posted (edited)

I don't know what the mystery object is but here's another photo of the same group captioned Raiding Party, Manchester Regiment, July 1918. One of the grenades is a No. 23. Someone's shaving in the background! ETA: Not sure if the caption's right as the badge on the helmets in the other photo looks very like Welsh Guards.

 

Raiding party, Manchester Regt, France July 1918.jpg

Edited by wainfleet

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wainfleet

This copy of the first photo might be easier to interpret.

 

 

Raiding party, France 1918.jpg

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tootrock

Chap handing out the gernades has medal ribbons, and a badge on his arm.

Martin

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Radlad

That picture looks staged to me. Not enough equipment around . I would have thought they would have donned water bottles and ammunition pouches before loading rifles. The 'mystery object' in the bottom left corner is a gas cylinder. light and shadow is breaking up the surface .

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wainfleet
12 minutes ago, Radlad said:

That picture looks staged to me. Not enough equipment around . I would have thought they would have donned water bottles and ammunition pouches before loading rifles. The 'mystery object' in the bottom left corner is a gas cylinder. light and shadow is breaking up the surface .

 

Raiding parties were supposed to be lightly equipped as the idea was to be mobile, agile and in the enemy trenches for not more than a minute or two. A full magazine, a couple of extra clips, two Mills bombs and possibly a cotton bandolier is the most they would have taken.

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mancpal

My initial response which suggests a type of tripod is based on the right side of the object. I can understand the assertion that it may be a "gas bottle" but of what type or purpose?

I wonder if the right side of the object is possibly one leg of a folded tripod kicking out slightly, the pale stripe adjacent (and parallel) to it  being the background behind it.

The reflected "stripe" up the centre could be that of a second leg with the 'splay' of light at its top end being where the pressing of the leg receives its nut and bolt fitting which allows it to pivot.

On the other hand, can anybody explain what type of  "gas bottle" it may be and of course its purpose, I don't imagine it was for adding CO2 to the local lager.

The mention of the  "Manchesters" may stem from the badge on the grenade dealers sleeve, it resembles a Mcrs badge but in my view isn't.

 

Simon

 

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wainfleet

The sleeve grenade is simply a Warrant Officer's rank badge. Some of the men have arc-shaped cloth titles at the top of their sleeves, which is a good fit for the Welsh Guards if navy blue shows light on orthochromatic film.

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14276265
19 minutes ago, mancpal said:

On the other hand, can anybody explain what type of  "gas bottle" it may be and of course its purpose, I don't imagine it was for adding CO2 to the local lager.

 

 

It looks like the right size of air cylinder for a Strombos horn (gas alarm).

 

 

265

 

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mancpal

Sleeve grenade? What I was trying to infer was the that the WOs sleeve badge could be misinterpreted as a Manchesters badge by the unfamiliar.

Does anybody have an image of a strombos gas bottle to compare with the OPs original photo. Also, would a raiding party carry such equipment?

Can the grenade dealers medal ribbons be identified and thus dated?

 

Simon

 

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GRANVILLE

Plenty about the Strombo Horn here: 

 

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wainfleet
2 hours ago, mancpal said:

Sleeve grenade? What I was trying to infer was the that the WOs sleeve badge could be misinterpreted as a Manchesters badge by the unfamiliar.

Does anybody have an image of a strombos gas bottle to compare with the OPs original photo. Also, would a raiding party carry such equipment?

Can the grenade dealers medal ribbons be identified and thus dated?

 

Simon

 

 

I meant "sleeve badge"!

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mancpal

I thought so. Do you see what I mean about the badge resembling a Mcrs badge? I'm certain it isn't but suspect this may be where the 'labelling' as Mcrs arises from. In fact it looks more like the General Service badge to me.

Any thoughts on the medal ribbons?

 

Simon

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wainfleet

I can just about see how someone might have thought that, though if they knew enough to recognise a Manchesters badge, you'd think they would know it didn't go on the lower sleeve. I can't offer any thoughts on the ribbons.

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RaySearching

Here is another photo which appears to be in the same sequence and location

to throw into the pot 

 

meteren11_orig.jpg.a7d23f3149984187ef6d2d09227896cb.jpg

 

captioned 

Meteren, France. c. 1918. 11th Bn. Royal Scots about to embark on a daylight raid removing their personal belongings, pay books and identity discs.

 

 

Ray

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RaySearching
On 22/06/2019 at 12:23, wainfleet said:

I don't know what the mystery object is but here's another photo of the same group captioned Raiding Party, Manchester Regiment, July 1918. One of the grenades is a No. 23. Someone's shaving in the background! ETA: Not sure if the caption's right as the badge on the helmets in the other photo looks very like Welsh Guards.

 

 Raiding party, Manchester Regt, France July 1918.jpg

 

The above photo can be found in the Imperial war museums collection 

captioned

A Regimental Sergeant Major of 11th Royal Scots hands out Mills bombs to a raiding party at Meteren.

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Toby Brayley

Also interesting to see SMLEs wrapped in the hessian bags, presumably for for transport. Great pictures.

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tootrock

Would a raiding party have carried rifles? I thought knives and clubs were the preferred weapons for close quarter combat.

Martin

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