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tootrock

SCAPA FLOW- GERMAN WRECKS FOR SALE ON EBAY

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rolt968
15 minutes ago, tootrock said:

The following is from the BBC News website. Apologies if it has been posted elsewhere on the Forum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-48684400

 

Martin

I saw that.

It doesn't seem very clear what the buyer actually gets. The wrecks are protected and cannot be salvaged. According to the article it gives the right to dive on them and it might be possible with permission to remove "artifacts".

RM

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voltaire60
Posted (edited)

  Empty the piggy-banks folks-   From the BBC  website and concerning stuff for sale on Ebay   Please note- Collection Only.

 

(Thanks to BBC)

 

 

Scapa Flow: Sunken WW1 battleships up for sale on eBay

MarkgrafImage copyrightORKNEY LIBRARY ARCHIVES/SCAPAFLOWWRECKS.COM Image captionThe German battleship Markgraf was among those scuttled in 1919

Four World War One battleships sunk in Scapa Flow in Orkney in 1919 are being sold on eBay - with an asking price of just over £800,000.

The vessels, which were part of the German High Seas fleet, were deliberately scuttled 100 years ago.

When the listing first appeared on online auction site eBay, some assumed the advert was a hoax.

But the seller explained that they had been bought from a defunct salvage company.

The vessels will now be sold to the highest bidder.

The ships - the Markgraf, Karlsruhe, Konig and Kronprinz Wilhelm - are scheduled monuments, which recreational divers are not supposed to enter.

But Drew Crawford, agent for retired Tayside diving contractor Tommy Clark, said the owner of the wrecks would be allowed to access them.

They cannot be removed from the seabed.

Ebay listing for four battleshipsImage copyrightEBAY Image captionThe listing describes the ships as "pre-owned" and says the buyer must collect

Mr Crawford told BBC Radio Orkney it might be possible to obtain licences to retrieve artefacts from the ships, although the commercial salvage of the wrecks themselves would no longer be allowed.

He said: "The wrecks ended up under the ownership of Scapa Flow Salvage.

"That company went into receivership and they were put out for tender at the time, and Mr Clark purchased them from the receiver.

"There's a sense of pride associated with these absolutely iconic vessels, but ultimately he's come to a time in his life where he's not going to do anything further with them, so it's a case of passing the baton on to the next owner."

MarkgrafImage copyrightUHI ARCHAEOLOGY INSTITUTE Image captionMarkgraf lies on the seabed

The fleet had been interned in Scapa Flow after surrendering in the Firth of Forth.

Admiral Ludwig von Reuter ordered the deliberate sinking of his ships in WW1 because he feared either the resumption of hostilities if treaty negotiations in Paris broke down, or the seizing of the fleet by the Allies as war reparations.

During the 1920s and 30s a number of the vessels were lifted from the sea bed by commercial contractors, and broken up.

Some historians argue that saved Orkney from the worst effects of the post-war recession.

'A lot of interest'

And the presence of the wrecks in Scapa Flow has made the area a destination of choice for divers, keen to see the remains on the sea bed.

Mr Crawford said: "We anticipated that there's a very small number of people that would be interested in such a purchase, and would have the funds for such a purchase. And that it was necessary to cast the net as wide as possible.

"We've had a lot of interest. A lot of people from overseas have been in contact. We've been pleasantly surprised at the number of people who've been in touch, and the interest that we've had to date."

The anniversary of the scuttling is being marked with a series of events across Orkney - including conferences, exhibitions, specially written plays, and a commemorative service at Lyness cemetery in Hoy, where a number of German sailors shot by the Royal Navy during the scuttle are buried.

Related Topics

Edited by voltaire60

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MaxD

What colour?

 

Max

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DavidOwen

(Threads merged)

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voltaire60
6 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

(Threads merged)

 

    Thanks-And  I thought I was the only BBC viewer left  :wub:

10 minutes ago, MaxD said:

What colour?

 

Max

 

    After you buy them, whatever you want.  "Battleship Grey" seems a popular choice for..........er, .......  battleships  . But there is no need to be hidebound by convention

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jonbem
5 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

"Battleship Grey" seems a popular choice for..........er, .......  battleships

Some nice images if you search google

Image result for ship camouflage

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voltaire60
Posted (edited)

  Looks like an American battleship (Blackpool Tower  configuration). Utterly tasteless-  USS  Las Vegas?

The Scapa Flow story  should continue with seriousness-there seem to be a number of questions relating to UK legislation and international Law of the Sea

 

    The actual conditions of sale  are interesting-those for Markgraf posted below.  What a blow- I thought secondhand and slightly damaged battleships were either VAT-free or Zero Rated

 

Markgraf is a Scheduled Monument according to the Ancient Monuments and Archeological Areas Act 1979 and there is currently a desire to include Markgraf in a Historic Marine Protected Area.

Although further salvage of Markgraf is not prohibited, (it is subject to obtaining the necessary permits from Historic Environment Scotland and the required Marine Licenses) it is most unlikely any salvage operations of a commercial nature will be permitted.

Currently recreational divers are permitted to access the waterspace around Markgraf however they are NOT permitted to touch, enter or to go within one metre of the wreck.

The new owner will be able to dive on Markgraf, including touching and entering the wreck, and also to salvage items from Markgraf (subject to gaining the necessary permissions). They will own a warship with a greater displacement than HMS Ark Royal and if they purchase all 4 wrecks, will have a sizable naval fleet amongst the largest in the world.

It may be possible to generate revenue through tourism or the recovery of materials from the wreck however any purchaser will need to satisfy themselves of these possibilities.

  • The sale will be according to the Conditions of Sale (Wrecks) (See Photo)

  • The sale will require the consent of the Ministry of Defence. Details of the purchasing entity are to be provided within 5 days of acceptance of offer. We will then apply for consent. It will take several weeks to obtain consent from the Ministry of Defence.

  • The purchasing entity will be required to provide an indemnity in favour of the MoD. The wording of the indemnity will be similar to that provided by Mr Clark (See Photo).

  • The purchasing entity will be required to provide an indemnity in favour of Mr Clark. The wording of the indemnity will be similar to that provided by Mr Clark to the MoD.

  • UK VAT will be added to the winning bid (20%)

  • A non-refundable deposit of 10% of the purchase price is to be paid within 48hrs of acceptance of offer.

  • Balance of funds to be paid prior to the “date of entry” unless otherwise agreed.

  • The “date of entry” will be 5 days after consent from the MoD has been received.

  • Postcode on listing is for Stromness Ferry Terminal

Further information can be found here: http://www.scapaflowwrecks.com/wrecks/markgraf/

And here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Markgraf

If unsold on expiry of this listing Markgraf will be auctioned on ebay.

For any further information please contact Andrew Crawford on +44 (0) 7824 568 156 or andrew@adcrawford.co.uk

Edited by voltaire60

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MikB

I thought the armour had already been pinched for nuclear research, due to its manufacture before the background radiation level went up.

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MikB
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

 

 

    After you buy them, whatever you want.  "Battleship Grey" seems a popular choice for..........er, .......  battleships  . But there is no need to be hidebound by convention

Indeed not...

 

b3276ab4f055bdc8159ab176e4d7d886.jpg

Edited by MikB

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Derek Black

I'd be surprised if there was much left to easily remove.
When in the Orkneys over 20 years ago it seemed everyone had Scapa flow relics decorating their houses and gardens, that they had removed themselves or by others in the community, over the previous 80 years.

 

Derek.

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David Filsell

Indeed, I consider both of the shots are real Bobby Dazzlers!

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Moonraker

Twenty per cent VAT to be added. Lots of ifs and buts, as given in Voltaire's post above.

 

No bids for the Markgraf, which has been re-listed.

 

Moonraker

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barkalotloudly

best offers considered?

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voltaire60
22 hours ago, barkalotloudly said:

best offers considered?

 

Go on then!!!

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seaJane

Crowdfund? I could afford a rivet or two ... 

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2ndCMR

The salvage operations conducted in the 1920s and perhaps 30s were extraordinary undertakings by divers and others of great courage. 

 

x8iJ7.jpghttp://photos1.blogger.com/img/193/1743/640/scapa01.2.jpg

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Ron Clifton

It is worth remembering that today is the centenary of the scuttling.

 

Ron

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Falloden

.. and nine German sailors were shot during attempts to prevent the sinkings.

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MikeyH

Mentioning the anniversary this morning, our local BBC radio station said that 50 German

ships were scuttled, was the number so high?

Mike.

 

 

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jonbem
24 minutes ago, MikeyH said:

Mentioning the anniversary this morning, our local BBC radio station said that 50 German

ships were scuttled, was the number so high?

Mike.

 

 

apparently 52

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttling_of_the_German_fleet_at_Scapa_Flow

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Ron Clifton
1 hour ago, jonbem said:

52 out of 74, as Wikipedia says. This total included a number of destroyers and cruisers, as well as the capital ships, but a number of the ships were beached.

 

Ron

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The Prussian
Posted (edited)

Hello!

Interesting offer... Free shipping! :D Joke...

If someone wants to buy one of the ships, keep your eyes open. You would be responsible for every polluting of the sea by oil and other technical liquids and the deactivation of the shells (if still exist)...

Here is a german list of the ships:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versenkte_Schiffe_der_Hochseeflotte_1919

and a postcard:

Scapa Flow.JPG

Edited by The Prussian

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MikeyH
Posted (edited)
On 21/06/2019 at 10:40, jonbem said:

 

Jonbem,

Many thanks for the link, many years ago I had one of those 'Wonder Books for Boys'.

It had a well illustrated section on the salvage operations in the 1930's.  All heavy diving suits, with

Siebe brass helmets and long rubber air tubes, must have been quite hazardous.

Mike.

Edited by MikeyH

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