Lyle Beadman Merchant Navy

[Sgt Stripes]

Hi. I have all but finished researching Lyle Beadman but there are a few blanks that I need help with. He joined the RFA as a driver number 25500 in September 1914 and survived the war. Firstly I can not find a census for him. He states on his Army form that he lived in Seaforth, Liverpool. I have him at the age of 16 serving in the FRANCONIA 1911 and them the IVERNIA in 1912. After the war he went back to serving in ships 1919 the ROYAL GEORGE. He stayed at sea and in 1937 was serving in the BERENGARIA. The next time I can find his name is 1942 QUEEN MARY then 1944 HIGHLAND MONARCK. Did he serve in any other ships from 1937 till 1942 also his father was Thomas Beadman born Leicester and I have him serving in the CARMANIA 1912 and then the AQUITANIA 1919. Did he serve in the Merchant Navy during WW1. Finally what are the chances of finding photographs of these two men. Many Thanks  

[alf mcm]

There are 2 Merchant Navy records for Thomas Beadman here https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?firstname=thomas&firstname_variants=true&lastname=beadman&sourcecategory=education %26 work&sourcecountry=great britain

 

And a few here for Lyle Beadman  https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?firstname=lyle&firstname_variants=true&lastname=beadman&sourcecategory=education %26 work&sourcecountry=great britain

 

Regards,..

 

Alf McM

[Sgt Stripes]

Many Thanks Alf for your reply. Sadly I do not have access to FMP, Ancestry ok but even my library does have access.   

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Sgt Stripes said:

Firstly I can not find a census for him. He states on his Army form that he lived in Seaforth, Liverpool. I have him at the age of 16 serving in the FRANCONIA 1911 and them the IVERNIA in 1912.

Looking at the birth records for England and Wales produces no likely birth for a Lyle Beadman born anywhere in those two countries in the period 1893 – 1897. There was also no obvious Beadman born in the Lancashire area in that period.

 

I then looked for children registered with the first name Lyle. One stood out. The birth of a Lyle Carl Nelson was registered in the West Derby District of Lancashire in the January to March District of 1894. That childs mothers’ maiden name was “Bedford”.

 

On the 1911 Census of England and Wales has a 17 year Lyle Carl “Neilson”, a Chemists’ Messenger, born Bootle, Liverpool who was recorded living in the household of his mother Elizabeth Beadman. They were living at 13 Durham Road, Seaforth. The relationships for the household get a bit muddled .

 

This was the first census completed by a member of the household. Elizabeth Beadman, aged 41 and born London, was originally recorded as the wife of the head of the household, but has then been crossed through and shown as the head of the household. She states she has been married 22 years and has had 8 children of which 6 were then alive.

 

In my experience in many maritime locations it was not uncommon for wifes to be shown as the head of the household while their husbands were away at sea.

 

So I’m not sure how that stacks up with Elizabeth being the mother of Lyle.

 

So now lets look at the rest of the household.

Laura Neilson, married 6 months, aged 20, and born Waterloo, Liverpool.

Ernest Neilson Beadman, aged 14, born Bootle, Drapers’ Messenger.

Herbert Beadman, aged 9, born Seaforth, Liverpool

Arthur Beadman, aged 5, born Seaforth, Liverpool

Nora Beadman, aged 3, born Seaforth, Liverpool.

 

On the 1901 Census Elizabeth Beadman and her children Nell Nelson, (11), Lyle Nelson, (7) and Ernest Beadman, (4) were recorded at 27 Roman Street, Seaforth. All the children are shown as born Liverpool. Elizabeth gave her age as 34 and her birthplace as London. She was working as a Laundress.

(The sourced I use for census look-ups has transcribed your mans’ name as “Lye” Nelson. My experience is that all the main genealogy sites use the same original transcription, so it’s likely to be the same wherever you check).

 

There is no likely marriage in England & Wales of a male Beadman to a female Nelson \ Nelson at any point or to a woman with the first name Elizabeth in the period 1887 – 1891, Elizabeth said in 1911 she had been married 22 years.

 

I couldn’t find Elizabeth on the 1891 census.

 

Checking out the children:-

Nell Nelson – no obvious match

Ernest Nelson Beadman, birth registered West Derby District, Q2 1897, (no mothers’ maiden name available).

Herbert Beadman, birth registered West Derby District, Q3 1902, (no mothers’ maiden name available).

Arthur Beadman, birth registered West Derby District, Q2 1906, (no mothers’ maiden name available).

Norah Beadman, birth registered West Derby District, Q4 1907, (mothers’ maiden name Bedford).

 

That still leaves no likely match for a marriage.

 

If you have an account on familysearch it has at least 58 crewlists for arrivals on the eastern seaboard of the United States in the 1920’s and 1930’s which might fill in some of the gaps.

 

Hope that’s not a red herring,

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Sgt Stripes]

Hello Peter. First of all many thanks for taking the time to look for Lyle Beadman. The information you have posted looks to be correct as he has put his address down in his service papers as 13 Durham St. Sadly there is no other information apart from Thomas Beadman. This has now filled in one of the blanks and has really help me a great deal. I have all his ships from the crew list up until 1937 then 1942. Once again many Thanks Sgt Stripes 

[PRC]

4 hours ago, Sgt Stripes said:

 his father was Thomas Beadman born Leicester and I have him serving in the CARMANIA 1912 and then the AQUITANIA 1919. Did he serve in the Merchant Navy during WW1.

 

The 1915 crew list site has a 51 year old Thomas Beadman, born Leicester and a Ships Cook, recorded as part of the crew of the Ivernia. His previous ship was the Polandia. His home address is given as 22 Chestnut Road, Seaforth. He signed on at Cardiff on the 23rd June 1915.

https://1915crewlists.rmg.co.uk/document/190271#&gid=1&pid=3

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Edited 17 June , 2019 by PRC
Mis-read his previous ships name and have now corrected

[Sgt Stripes]

Once again Peter great information. I do not have access to FMP so to confirm that Thomas Beadman did serve in the MM during WW1 is super. Both these ships were lost in WW1 , IVERNIA 1.Jan.1917 ( I wonder if he was onboard when she went down) and POLANDIA  10.March 1917.   

[ernest james]

I looked at some of the replies to your question and then did a search on the merchant seamen records on findmy past (fmp)plus a check on the award of a ww1 mercantile marine medal

 

Father

Thomas b 1861 : Discharge number 692167. CR1 and CR2 record card. no CR10 card . WW1 mercantile marine medal.

Sons???

Lyle b 1894 discharge no 629906 . 8 record cards including CR10 card with passport style photo. records cover ww1 and ww2 period.

Ernest b 1897. discharge no 1042752. 3 record cards including CR10 card with passport style photo. Discharge number suggests he served as merchant seaman postwar only. Worth checking RN records for possible wartime service.

Herbert b 1902. discharge no 943796. 4 record cards including CR10 card with passport style photo. ww1 mercantile marine medal.

 

There appear to be photos for all three?? sons but not the father. I've found that fmp is a great tool for this kind of search. If you want a decent photo get a copy from the ORIGINAL records in Southampton Archives.

best wishes

ernest james

[horatio2]

The MMR Medal Roll has an entry for a Thomas Beadman, Chief Cook, Victory and British War Medals claimed by Self for service in RFA/HMS CANNING, kite balloon ship.

[PRC]

3 hours ago, ernest james said:

Ernest b 1897. discharge no 1042752. 3 record cards including CR10 card with passport style photo. Discharge number suggests he served as merchant seaman postwar only. Worth checking RN records for possible wartime service.

 

The Discovery catalogue at the National Archive has an entry of a Royal Navy Rating, J25897 Ernest Nelson Beadman, born Liverpool 2nd March 1897. That would tie in with the birth record in Q2 (April to June) 1897 as you had 42 days to register the birth with the Civil Authorities.

Looks like the records commence in 1913 when he initially signed up as a Boy Sailor and from the preview version it looks like they go through to 1920. His previous occupation is given as Errand Boy, which again ties in with the 1911 Census details.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6877944

 

Hope that helps,

Peter