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Remembered Today:

Private Charles Searle, Suffolks/King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry


John French

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Private 2791 Charles Searle enlisted in the Suffolk Regiment, apparently at Cambridge - date unknown and was later posted to 2/4th Battalion King's Own Yorkshire Light infantry as Private  37584- date also unknown.  He was born in 4th quarter 1897 and was K.I.A at the end of the German Spring Offensive on 20/7/18.  His medal card shows Victory and British War medals only.  He was unmarried and received £8.0.0 in war gratuity.  Soldiers Killed in WWI database suggests he enlisted in the Suffolk Yeomanry, but there is no known family association with horses/cavalry (or Yorkshire) - his medal card more plausibly shows Suffolk Regiment.

 

Please would someone calculate his estimated enlistment date and also a transfer date to KOYLI.

Edited by John French
Omitted KOYLI serial number
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I wouldn't rule out too quickly that he started with the Suffolk Yeomanry.

 

A record exists for John Sills who had the close KOYLI number of 37587. He was originally 2685 Suffolk Yeomanry, then 11/Suffolk Regiment before transferring to 8/KOYLI. He was latterly 110016 2/7th DLI.

 

The record shows he transferred to the KOYLI on 06/09/1917 - I would conclude your man did also.

 

Would need to sample further records to build a more definite picture.

 

Regards

 

Russ

 

 

 

 

 

KOYLI.JPG

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#2799 Suffolk Yeomanry was issued on 25 Sep 16 so the date fits for #2791 being Suffolk Yeomanry and being allocated the number between 21 and 25 Sep 16.


Craig

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And #2685 Suffolk Yeomanry was allotted 14th Sept 1916 as per the record in post #2 for John Sills.

 

So it looks like Searle's medal roll has an error, quoting his Suffolk Yeomanry number instead of his Suffolk Regiment number, which will remain unknown. However, I would hazard a guess that it would have been close to that allotted to Jon Sills, whose Suffolk Regiment number was 50757.

 

Regards

 

Russ

Edited by RussT
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Craig/Russ, thanks for your normal quick service in providing the correlated estimate of his enlistment date.

 

After reading John Sills' service record I'm intrigued on a couple of points:

 - Assuming Charles Searle followed a similar path, is it possible that a 19 year old could choose to join a home-service territorial battalion rather than be conscripted to a line battalion?

 - In Long Long Trail it says that in July 1916 2/1st Suffolk Yeomanry were dis-mounted and became a Cycle Unit for home defense purposes - Could Sills/Searle have been posted to KOYLI as specialist cyclists (Wikipedia shows pictures of cycle-mounted troops in France)?

 

I also found Searle's entry on the KOYLI medal roll (attached) showing he was in the 11th Suffolk, the 8th KOYLI (like Sills), then the 9th KOYLI, then 2/4th KOYLI - any explanation for the multiple KOYLI moves and why was the posting to 11th Suffolk such a short duration (assuming like Sills)?

 

John

 

 

searle - KOYLI Medal Roll.jpg

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On your first point, I don't believe he had a choice. Sill's record shows he was a Derby scheme man. Conscription was also in force. So my view is that Searle was either mobilised to or conscripted to the Suffolk yeomanry on the basis they needed some men at that time.

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7 hours ago, John French said:

After reading John Sills' service record I'm intrigued on a couple of points:

 - Assuming Charles Searle followed a similar path, is it possible that a 19 year old could choose to join a home-service territorial battalion rather than be conscripted to a line battalion?

 

 

The short answer is no, but that's to mis-understand the role of units like the 2nd/1st Suffolk Yeomanry. By this stage of the war they were just as much training units but with an additional home defence requirement. Newly mobilised men like John Sillis, and Charles Searle would have reported to them for basic training and subsequent preparation for going overseas. Having reached a sufficient level - and six months in my experience is not unusual - they would be held ready as replacement drafts for either the regiments' fighting battalions or affiliated county infantry battalions.

 

Thus when the call went up that the 11th Suffolks needed more men, a sufficiently sized draft would have been sent and the necessary paperwork done to administratively transfer them to the new regiment for pay and disciplinary purposes, while off the men went to France. Whether they ever had Suffolk Regiment cap badges or had id tags made up with the new service numbers would be a moot point.

 

The draft then arrived at 15th Infantry Base Depot where they would have been held for more "frontline \ latest practice" training - at least in theory. Meanwhile the administrative juggling act would have continued. The 11th Suffolks may have already been made good from men at 15 IBD or while the 11th Suffolks were short, other units were even shorter. It looks like in this case the 8th KOYLI won out and thats where they were sent. The only notes I have for that unit is that they were in the front line at Hooge from the 24th August and that a few days later another Brigade had to be drafted in to beef up the Division, (23rd), of which the 8th KOYLI were part. Whether that was because the units that made up the division were understrength or the division had been given too long a frontage I don't know - the battalion or 70th Brigade War Diary might make that clearer. There is also an official Regimental History.

 

The most likely explanation for the subsequent moves to the 9th and then 2nd/4th Battalion was that Charles Searles was either wounded or ill. On recovery, if found fit for combat duties, he would have ended up back either at the KOYLI Depot in the UK or at an Infantry Base Depot  - either way he would have gone through the same lottery of whether he ended up back with his "original" unit or was posted somewhere else. If he was wounded then he should pop up in an official casualty list. If he was ill then medical unit admission \ discharge registers, (I understand FMP has a good selection) and local newspapers might be your best bet.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

Edit - had another think! If they were bound for 11th Suffolks, (34th Division), I wouldn't have expected them to end up at 15 IBD. However 15th & 34th IBD were both at Etaples. I don't know what date John Sillis left there to joing his new unit, but he is shown as administratively transferred on the 6th September 1917. There had been a number of incidents since the end of August 1917 in the camps at Etaples, leading to what became known as the Etaples mutiny starting on the 9th September. If there were problems in the camps the authorities may have been keen to move as many men on as quickly as possible, which may have hastened the choice of unit he and Charles were sent to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Étaples_mutiny

 

Additionally 8th KOYLI went to Italy in November 1917 and didn't return to the Western Front before the end of the war. It would seem most likely that any wound \ illness that led to Charles switching to the 9th Battalion must have happened before that.

 

 

Edited by PRC
Additional thought :-)
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Extract from the 8/KOYLI war diary - I would suggest this records the arrival of Searle (& Sills) in a draft of 51 ORs arriving on 08/09/1917.

 

 

KOYLI -2.JPG

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Russ, according to the war diaries above the 8th King's Own were behind the front lines at Buysscheure in France in September, but I believe in October they were involved in the 2nd Battle of Passchendaele, where it seems likely Searle may have been wounded (still checking local papers), thereby missing the 8th's transfer to the Italian front.  Please could you send me a link to the war diaries - my Ancestry search gives me 400,000 hits.

 

Thanks

 

John

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