ChrisBrum Posted 16 June , 2019 Share Posted 16 June , 2019 Hi i was wondering if anybody could help me with some information regarding my Grandads service in the Rifle Brigade during WW1. His medal card and Silver War Badge details show that he was in France and in the 6th but my research suggests that the 6th battalion Rifle Brigade were not present in France? That’s my first question. The other is how do I find out where he fought and what the nature of his wounds were? It appears that he only served for just over a year before discharge in 1916. He lived until 1930 and fathered 4 sons and a daughter. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 16 June , 2019 Share Posted 16 June , 2019 A name and service number from the list you have posted would assist the forum pals with your query and welcome to the forum regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 June , 2019 Share Posted 16 June , 2019 Hi Chris, Which entry is your Grandfathers? The 6th was a Reserve Battalion which was based on the Isle of Sheppey throughout the war. Wounded/ill soldiers when shipped home to the UK used to go to the 5th or 6th. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 Is it Willis or Cotterill-as those two are the 6th Batt members listed George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBrum Posted 17 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2019 Guys, thanks for the welcome to the forum, have made a mental note not to post when half asleep! My Grandad was Ernest Cotterill, service number S/9269. Here is his medal card. Another question struck me ( to go with the other two). The badge form clearly says that it was filled out in 1918, yet states Grandads discharge as 1916? Does that mean he had to wait 2 years after his discharge to get his badge or does it mean he was discharged from active service and put into the wounded battalion until the end of the war? Again any help at all would be welcome. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 There may be further information with his Pension record. It's on Ancestry/Fold3 but I do not have access... Name: Ernest Cotterill Gender: Male Rank: Rfm Birth Date: 1889 Residence Place: Bham Military Service Region: Midlands, England Discharge Date: 15 Apr 1918 Service Number: S/9269 Regiment: Rfle Bde Title: Pension Record Cards Description: Pension Record Ledger Reference Number: 6/MC/No.3486 https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61588&h=379204&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Yiy20445&_phstart=successSource George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 Then he was in the 10th Rifle Brigade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 (edited) Something very wrong with his Silver War Badge Roll. Come across many inaccuracies in these rolls before, especially with enlistment and discharge date, must admit to taking these SWB rolls now with a pinch of salt due to the many inaccuracies. Battalion casualty lists have him down as wounded 18/9/16, some 4 months after his supposed discharge date, where the battalion were in trenches N. E. of Guinchy suffering heavily from shell fire. During the night they sent out a covering party for Royal Engineers digging a new trench. Andy Edited 18 June , 2019 by stiletto_33853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 His pension record records that he was discharged with the disability (inflammation of middle ear Both) aggravated by service) Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBrum Posted 17 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2019 Thanks for the great feedback it really is appreciated. Inflammation of both middle ears? Does this mean he was deaf as it strikes me as quite a tame thing to be discharged for (he said from his comfy peaceful home). Clearly not meaning to be demeaning as I’m rather glad that he survived. How did we ascertain that he was in the 10th battalion and is there a chance that he was reassigned to the 6th due to his injuries or just sent straight home? Always nice to personalise these things so here is the only picture I have off him and I only saw this recently. Bit spooky as it’s like a mirror image of my son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 30 minutes ago, ChrisBrum said: How did we ascertain that he was in the 10th battalion Listed as 10th Bn on the medal roll on Ancestry Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 Possible balance issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 (edited) He would have been assigned to the 5th or 6th Rifle Brigade when returning home after injury or illness. Then brought up to speed again ready to be shipped back overseas. Not so in this case as he was discharged but I do not think on the date given on his Silver War Badge Roll due to his injury in September 1916, some 5 months after he was supposed to have been discharged. Andy Edited 30 June , 2019 by stiletto_33853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 (edited) His 1914-15 Star roll seems to think 15/4/18 as discharge date, which kind of tie's in with him receiving his SWB in 1918, and being wounded after his given discharge date in the SWB Roll. Andy Edited 17 June , 2019 by stiletto_33853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 (edited) I agree with Andy The Silver war badge date of 16/04/1916 is a clerical error it should read 16/04/ 1918 The pension record shows he was discharged 15/04/1918 pension commenced 16/04/1918 confirmed by the medal roll posted by Andy above with the date 15/04/18 Ray 4 hours ago, Bardess said: Possible balance issues? I use to suffer from the same disability, after drinking copious amounts of the amber necter Edited 17 June , 2019 by RaySearching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBrum Posted 17 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2019 Guys all the thanks in the world for this stuff and it makes logical sense that the correct discharge date was 15/04/18. If you look closely at the silver badge roll it is stamped at the bottom for 25 Apr 1918 which further proves the theory out I’d say. Which begs another question (I know I’m pushing my luck lol). If the wounding happened 18/09/16 then what was he doing in the time between the wounding and the discharge? Does that explain the 6th btn entry on the silver badge roll perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 (edited) Chris, On his wounding the 10th would want him off their books. Unknown if he spent anytime in a hospital in France, but when he returned to the UK he would have been placed on the 5th or 6th books. Once again unknown if and for how long he was in a hospital in the UK then maybe a convalescence home. When healed he would have gone to the 6th on the Isle of Sheppey to go through fitness training and updates on present Western Front methods before being shipped back overseas to whatever battalion needed re-inforcements. It seems likely that whilst with the 6th his middle ear problems (aggravated through service) flared up and he was designated for discharge. No timelines for how long he took recovering from his wound, convalescence, time actually physically with the 6th (if any) etc without a service record. Sorry but without the benefit of a record timelines are going to be impossible. Andy Know the feeling Ray, but hate the next morning. Edited 17 June , 2019 by stiletto_33853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 17 June , 2019 Share Posted 17 June , 2019 Chris You may gain an insight into the battalions actions, prior to and up to the date your grandfather was wounded in action, by reading the war diary which can be found on Ancestry Here The battalion were certainly in the thick of it Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBrum Posted 17 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2019 Awesome stuff guys I just don’t know how to thank you but thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBrum Posted 18 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 June , 2019 15 hours ago, RaySearching said: Chris You may gain an insight into the battalions actions, prior to and up to the date your grandfather was wounded in action, by reading the war diary which can be found on Ancestry Here The battalion were certainly in the thick of it Ray Cheers Ray looking at those papers it seems certain that Ernest was involved in the battle of Guillemont possibly sustaining his wounds at the later battle of Flers-Courcelette which the brigade were in at the time he was wounded. The details in those notes is inspiring me to take a trip and see for myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 18 June , 2019 Share Posted 18 June , 2019 Chris, The position of his battalion at the time of his wounding, taken from the Brigade diary. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBrum Posted 18 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 June , 2019 Andy that’s awesome. Brilliant that this stuff is still out there. So in your opinion would you concur that on the 18th, the day of his wounding, that he was in the battle of Flers-Courcelette? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 18 June , 2019 Share Posted 18 June , 2019 (edited) Not really, well the finishing touches the 14th Division had taken most of the area on the 15th, and had been badly mauled by the Guards not making their objective where it enabled the Germans to turn machine guns into the 14th Div. flanks. The KSLI and KRRC positions are where the 14th Div. made a flank guard after the Guards failed to take their objectives. The Guards Division at Lesboeufs had taken a mauling and on the 16th the 20th Division relieved the Guards who then relieved the 20th Div. again on night of 19th/20th. 20th Div. Operational Order 105 of 16/9/16 states that all ground taken on the previous days assault will be consolidated, hence they seem to have been more of a holding & consolidation Div. but told to improve the position if possible. The 59th Brigade were ordered to make an attack to take a small pocket so that the next phase of the attack would be ready. This attacked turned out to be a bit of a disaster with the Regimental History calling it a fiasco with the promised co-operation from the 62nd Brigade of the 21st Division in bombing down Grid Trench coming to nothing. Andy Edited 26 June , 2019 by stiletto_33853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBrum Posted 19 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 19 June , 2019 Andy that’s unbelievable information but leaves me none the wiser. Narrows it down so much though, far more precise than I ever knew. Unsure as to what kind of wound would damage someone’s ears that badly that they ended up being discharged. Shellburst overhead maybe? Somehow the family story was that Ernest was a sniper and had some kind of black uniform. I always had my doubts and it doesn’t seem like this brigade contained anything more than frontline infantrymen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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