CSM J.V. Carr DCM - Any information on a Order of St George (Russia)

[davidbohl]

Liverpool schoolteacher CSM James Vincent CARR #22949 King's Liverpool Regt. was awarded the Order of St George (Russia) according to NUT records.

I can't find anything about this award, was it post war or for something he did during ? (DCM for conspicuous gallantry)

 

On a footnote the grand gentleman by my reckoning reached the grand age of 100.

Deaths Sep 1980
CARR	JAMES VINCENT	24FE1890	LIVERPOOL

 

Thanks

Dave

[ForeignGong]

Hi

I have nothing on him, Neither the LG or the Confidential File. But that doesn't mean he did not get it. Try war dairy and local papers.

Peter

[sotonmate]

This soldier seems to have been drafted to 17 Battalion after disbandment of his original 20 Battalion in France in Feb 1918. 17 Bn. went off to North Russia from Glasgow in Oct 1918 (till Sep 1919) as part of 236 Infantry Brigade of the SYREN Force. The other 2 Pals Battalions, 18 and 19, also had some of the Feb draft but neither went to Russia.

War Diary at Kew is WO95/5427 (not yet digital) and might have some detail on awards:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4558579

Edited 14 June , 2019 by sotonmate

[corisande]

In is not certain from what you say whether he was awarded it for service in Russia or elsewhere.

 

But if it was in Russia, I take the following from Damien Wright's excellent book "Churchill's Secret War with Lenin" @ wrightdw

 

...Russian Commanders were authorized to award on the spot the Medal and Cross of St George for bravery, with or without the sanction of the War Office and a number of British soldiers received  Russian decorations  in the field at a unit parade by Russian commanders, details of which were subsequently published in Ironside's GHQ  Routine Orders.

 

The book goes on to say that that the War Office later decided to limit the number of "granted permission for acceptance and wear"as opposed to actually awarded, using a quota system

 

There is a lot more about the politics and practicalities of the Russian awards on page 186 of that book. But the bottom line is that you will find it difficult/impossible to find out any more about his individual award

 

I cannot find anythingn about his award  in the local papers listed on FmP

Edited 15 June , 2019 by corisande

[corisande]

There is quite a lot of info on the medal on the Forum already

 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/search/?q="st george"&type=forums_topic&nodes=210