Private 8390 Robert Frederick Giles - 2nd Bn Welsh

[Andrew Marshall]

Dear All

 

I have been trying over time to piece together my great grandfather's service - Robert was a reservist when he went to France 13 Aug 1914 with the 2nd Battalion Welsh Regiment and is entitled to the 1914 Star trio he later transferred to the 8th Bn Welsh with the rank Acting Corporal. I think he originally enlisted around 1900 but I am unable to find any service records - this information comes from old newspaper cuttings.

 

I have his MIC and medal rolls 

 

I have an image of him standing next to his brother George Willie Giles - he has two chevrons pointing upwards on his lower left arm - can someone confirm that these are Good conduct badges please?

 

Thanks

[Andrew Marshall]

Here are the newspaper articles - he was a guest of honour when his old Regiment came back to Gravesend barracks in 1969 and he attended the St David's day parade and later that year he returned to Cardiff when the Regiment was amalgamated with the South Wales Borderers

[Bernard_Lewis]

I think the chevrons on the sleeve indicate the number of years of service in a theatre of war.

 

Bernard

[ForeignGong]

The two chevrons are good conduct stripes, I don't know the criteria for getting them is, hopefully someone else will come along with more knowledge.

[MaxD]

Good-conduct badges refer to years of service not necessarily in a war theatre.  Post 1914 two badges indicate at least 5 years service (ie less than 12 when the next one was earned). The criteria may have been different pre-war.  His number indicates joining in 1904 (which accords with one of the newspaper articles).  He had signed in 1904 perhaps for a 12 year engagement, 7 with the colours and 5 on reserve and was thus, as you say, still on the reserve when recalled at the outbreak of war.  It is a shame his record has not survived as the 2nd Battalion served in France whereas the 8th went to Gallipoli and Mesopotamia and we don't know when he went from one to the other.

 

Max

[Andrew Marshall]

12 hours ago, Bernard_Lewis said:

I think the chevrons on the sleeve indicate the number of years of service in a theatre of war.

 

Bernard

 

Hi Bernard - I thought the overseas service chevrons were on the lower right sleeve and were smaller with the 1914 one being red and the others blue

 

12 hours ago, ForeignGong said:

The two chevrons are good conduct stripes, I don't know the criteria for getting them is, hopefully someone else will come along with more knowledge.

 

Thanks Foreign Gong

 

9 hours ago, MaxD said:

Good-conduct badges refer to years of service not necessarily in a war theatre.  Post 1914 two badges indicate at least 5 years service (ie less than 12 when the next one was earned). The criteria may have been different pre-war.  His number indicates joining in 1904 (which accords with one of the newspaper articles).  He had signed in 1904 perhaps for a 12 year engagement, 7 with the colours and 5 on reserve and was thus, as you say, still on the reserve when recalled at the outbreak of war.  It is a shame his record has not survived as the 2nd Battalion served in France whereas the 8th went to Gallipoli and Mesopotamia and we don't know when he went from one to the other.

 

Max

 

Hi Max - Thanks for confirming his most likely enlistment - I had another smaller newspaper article that stated 1900 and this just confused the matter 

 

Robert was born 26 July 1885 in Nantmel, Wales and married my great nan on 16 February 1907 in Gravesend when he was stationed here being an Old Contemptibles' it is really frustrating that his service records do not survive as I would dearly love to follow his war service

 

I even have his Old Contemptibles' Association membership form that I came by from a dear friend who had it among the many things in his collections - it states that he served in "C" Coy 2nd Bn Welsh and was discharged 11 April 1919 - so he served the full term of the war and yet I know virtually nothing about him!

[MaxD]

While we don't know how long he served with 2nd Battalion before moving to 8th Battalion, your next move should be to read at least some of the battalion war diaries.  The main diary of 2nd Battalion has been separated into 6 parts at the National Archives, each of which is downloadable for £3.50.

 

If you have an Ancestry sub, the whole thing is at:

 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_1281_0-00000?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return  (the first page says Aug-Dec 1914 but the other parts follow on)

 

There are two for 8th Battalion - Gallipoli at https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/5abfb2aed995475ab2f832180e36304e and Mesopotamia at https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4557456

 

Ancestry:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60380/42871_625537_11854-00001?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return   covers the Gallipoli diary, the Mesopotamia diary isn't on Ancestry.

 

To put it all in context, any history that deals with 1st Division and 13 Division will be good, brief potted histories to start with here:

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/1st-division/

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/13th-western-division/

 

Does the family have any stories that might tell you whether he was at Gallipoli?

 

 

Max

 

 

[Andrew Marshall]

I will ask the family again - those that knew him haven't really come up with any information either through him not telling them in the first place or them not understanding what he was telling them 

 

Thank you for taking the time to provide the links for the diaries - I have looked at both the 2nd and 8th Bn but not knowing when he swapped from one to the other is frustrating

 

Thanks again - many eyes see things differently and I was hoping that I might have missed something

[Bernard_Lewis]

Doh! Ignore my duff info, then, sorry.

 

Bernard