museumtom Posted 8 June , 2019 Share Posted 8 June , 2019 I never heard of these before, is it true? Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 8 June , 2019 Share Posted 8 June , 2019 That’s a Masonic crucifix I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 8 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 8 June , 2019 Thanks you George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithfazzani Posted 8 June , 2019 Share Posted 8 June , 2019 Sorry to disagree but skull and crossbones are not unusual on crucifixes particularly in Europe in the 19th Century. The skull symbolises “Golgotha” the Jewish name for the place where Jesus was crucified, which translated means “The Place of the Skull”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 8 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 8 June , 2019 Thank you Keith. I had seen one for sale and it was being sold as a WW1 Chaplains crucifix for anointing soldiers. I had not heard of this before and a quick look on the net showed others saying the same thing. That was why I asked the question. Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithfazzani Posted 9 June , 2019 Share Posted 9 June , 2019 I see no reason at all why it should be described as a chaplain’s cross, may have been may not have been. If it were it would almost certainly have belonged to a Roman Catholic chaplain. It “looks” very French to me. It does appear that the original has been stuck on to a piece of brass or it may nave been made that way, so therefore could be described as Trench Art. Whether it was done for a chaplain, who knows, quite possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLD ROBIN HOOD Posted 9 June , 2019 Share Posted 9 June , 2019 Greetings from Sherwood Forest on a beautiful sunny morning. I have in front of me a crucifix of the type illustrated. The skull and crossbones were obviously affixed at the time that it was made. As far as I know it has no military connections whatever. I think that keithfazzani s theory about it symbolising Golgotha makes a good deal of sense. Being described as a Chaplains cross would make one of these much more easy to sell. I was once Catholic but don't ever remember seeing one when I was young. Old Robin Hood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 10 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 June , 2019 Thank you Keith and Robin. In the deep dark distant rescess of my mind I remember(?) seeing the Spanish nuns wearing these in the 1970's, and sure enough a quick look in a popular auction site for Nuns cross lots of them come up, skull and crossbones and all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin astill Posted 10 June , 2019 Share Posted 10 June , 2019 The skull and bones very common in Eastern Orthodox usage. As well as referring to Golgotha it may also symbolise Christ conquering death by his own death and resurrection. Edwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 10 June , 2019 Share Posted 10 June , 2019 I have one of these, inherited from my father who, I understand, picked it up in Italy in WW2 (he was never in the Army in France). Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 10 June , 2019 Share Posted 10 June , 2019 Here's one, described as a German soldiers crucifix....https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-WW1-German-Soldiers-Crucifix-Brass-Ebony-Death-Head-Skull-Detail-Back/173928027669?hash=item287eeb1615:g:MlMAAOSwhIZc8n7K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 10 June , 2019 Share Posted 10 June , 2019 I'd very much dobt any Masonic relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithfazzani Posted 10 June , 2019 Share Posted 10 June , 2019 Nor me Steve. As to whether the one on e-bay was a German Soldiers Crucifix, who knows. I am sure there were lots of similar crucifixes in circulation and many would have been carried by troops. Without provenance who knows whether this one was. I would hazard that it is a 19th or early 20th century crucifix and leave it at that. As an aside I have a crucifix from a similar period in my study, no skull and crossbones and mounted on plain wood. I bought it many years ago in France. The feet of the figure of Christ are worn shiny. I like to think that it belonged to a mother of a WW1 Poilu who touched or kissed it each day to keep him safe. Of course I have no evidence of this at all, mere speculation. But symbols can take on meanings totally unrelated to their reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullerTurner Posted 21 June , 2019 Share Posted 21 June , 2019 It has a very German feel, especially about the styling of the skull and crossbones detail? I would also disagree with a Masonic Connexxion.z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radlad Posted 21 June , 2019 Share Posted 21 June , 2019 (edited) The skull and crossbones is a common symbol amongst Christian communities across Europe. I believe it is a sign of resurrection, certainly, I have seen it depicted on tombstones in the UK whilst browsing churchyards for Jim Strawbridge. As a child , I remember a stone engraved as such in Balmaghie yard (the Kirk above Dee Water) and being teased about a pirate who plagued loch Ken being buried there. Edited 21 June , 2019 by Radlad spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddyO Posted 21 June , 2019 Share Posted 21 June , 2019 As a former traditional RC sacristan I concur with most of what has been offered. The skull and crossed bones device references the crucifixion taking place at Golgotha or 'place of the skull' as has been previously mentioned and is common on crucifixes made in catholic countries in Europe. There is much interpretation of Christ's passion as being a fulfilling of the Adam and Eve story with much mirroring of symbolism (Adam was the first man/Christ calls himself the Son of Man; garden of Eden/Gethsemane; tree of knowledge/'tree' of crucifixion i.e. the Cross; the Fall into sin/sins are redeemed by Christ's death and resurrection; Eve and Mary are often portrayed as Eva and Ave in missals etc. etc). Tradition has it that the Crucifixion took place on the burial site of Adam and so the skull references Adams mortal remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegHannay Posted 27 January , 2020 Share Posted 27 January , 2020 I first came across the skull and crossbones in an old disused graveyard on Portland (Dorset) (believed to be a pirates graveyard!!!) Not so, after further searching in other graveyards on the island it seems that it was a rather common thing during Victorian times to have the skull and crossbones on head stones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 27 January , 2020 Share Posted 27 January , 2020 (edited) I have seen references to the skull and cross bones in different contexts. Yes, Golgotha seems relevant, as does the suggestion that as an emblem of death it can conversely be used to symbolise the reversal of death. I think the logic runs (approximately): on Resurrection Day you will rise from the grave, and to do so you'd need the head bone and long leg bones as a sort of minimum. So they're to be treated with more respect than the other bits, as it were. In many places eg. Eastern Orthodox monasteries, after a suitable period a body is disinterred and the skull and long bones of the thigh are preserved in an ossuary. Something similar happened in the UK in the Middle Ages and later with the "Charnel Houses" and crypts of many churches, which tidied away those bones especially, while recycling the rest by pushing them to one side so that the next interment could take place. In this way a churchyard could be systematically cleared and re-cleared for many generations. That process stopped when tombstones became affordable, and it became impolitic and awkward to try to sort the remains in the previous way. Cemeteries then simply filled up, and society increasingly adopted a "don't disturb" attitude to the dead. Skeletons with scythes and so on definitely symbolize Death; but it's as if the skull & crossbones somehow looks beyond that...my thoughts, anyway. Edited 27 January , 2020 by clive_hughes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithfazzani Posted 28 January , 2020 Share Posted 28 January , 2020 I suspect that one can read too much into the significance of skull and crossbones. The most logical as said above, is that they are a sort of hieroglyphic meaning “golgotha” the name of the place where Christ was crucified which means the “place of the skull” or I suppose it could be colloquially translated as “charnel house”. It could also simply mean “overcoming death”. It is certainly a common image on older crucifixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now