Private 41044 William Charles Whitman, 12th Battalion, Suffolk Regiment

[John French]

Private Whitman was killed in action on 6/5/1917 on a trench raid on the Hindenburg Line near La Vacquerie, France.  His war gratuity was £4.10.0 and was probably unmarried as his sister was his sole legatee.  From this please would somebody estimate his enlistment date and possibly identify another soldier with a similar serial number and known embarkation to France (you see I'm learning how resourceful GWF experts are).

 

I have also seen a poor copy of trench-map for this raid.  Please would anyone who has access to Battalion war diaries  please send me a link.

 

Thanks

[ss002d6252]

9 minutes ago, John French said:

Private Whitman was killed in action on 6/5/1917 on a trench raid on the Hindenburg Line near La Vacquerie, France.  His war gratuity was £4.10.0 and was probably unmarried as his sister was his sole legatee.  From this please would somebody estimate his enlistment date and possibly identify another soldier with a similar serial number and known embarkation to France (you see I'm learning how resourceful GWF experts are).

 

I have also seen a poor copy of trench-map for this raid.  Please would anyone who has access to Battalion war diaries  please send me a link.

 

Thanks

£4 10s net is £6 10s gross - paid for 15 months service. Indicates enlistment in the month from 7 Feb 1916

Craig

[Stebie9173]

It look like a group transfer at No 15 Infantry Base Depot of men from the reserve battalions of the Territorial Force 5th Battalion Suffolk Regiment to the New Army 12th Battalion on 1 February 1917. There seem to be a couple of arrival dates in France - either 4th or 14th January 1917. - for the group. The draft joined 12th Battalion on 14 February 1917.

 

 

Steve.

[Acknown]

If you have Ancestry, the relevant page of the War Diary - 5 May 17 (the beginning of the raid) is here: 12/Suffolk WD.

Acknown

[PRC]

41042 George H Simpson (MiC) was Gordon Henry Simpson who was killed in action on the 06/05/1917 while serving with the 12th Battalion. (SDGW) He was formerly 4620 Suffolk Regiment. (Shown on SDGW but not MiC)

 

41045 Walter G G Masters, (MiC)  was Walter Charles Gordon Masters who was killed in action on the 24/11/1917 while serving with the 12th Battalion. (SDGW) He was formerly 28785 Bedfordshire Regiment. (Shown on SDGW but not MiC)

 

41047 \ 206023 Northamptonshires James Edward Cracknell - SWB card shows enlisted 22/10/1915, but not clear in which order he serverd.

 

41048 Ernest A Loton - SWB card shows enlisted 12/12/1915.

 

41050 Arthur Barber (MiC) also on SWB list but i could not find a separate card.

 

The service medal rolls and Silver War Badge Rolls may give a little bit more information - both available on Ancestry. The Discovery Catalogue at the National Archive does have MiC's for the other services numbers in the range 41040 - 41050, but it would appear those men went on to serve with other units, judging from who the MiC shows as having issued their medals, so I can't assume they might have been part of any draft that went to the 12th Battalion.

Cracknell and Loton could be Derby Scheme men, so the service number range 410** could possibly arise from when the drafts arrived in France. If you know his likely age and marital status then probably worth looking at when the group of the Derby Scheme that might have included Willian Whitman might have been called up. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/the-group-scheme-derby-scheme/

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

(SDGW - Soldiers Died in the Great War).

[John French]

Thanks to all for the enlistment information. Whitman's date of Birth is 1888, which is Group 10 Derby Scheme, mobilised on 29/2/1916

 

Steve, do you think the above enlistment date is consistent with a Feb 17 transfer to 12th Suffolks?

 

Acknown, I read the attached 12th Suffolk war diaries on the raid, but the two maps in the May Appendix do not seem to align with the raid on La Vacquerie - could the map be in 118 Brigade or 40 Division war diaries?  Do you have a link I could research?

 

Peter,  it may be that Private 41042 Simpson has a similar story to Private Whitman.  There were 2 Other Ranks casualties on the trench raid raid with one killed and one missing - Private Whitman's body was never recovered.

 

 

[Acknown]

I'm not a map expert (far from it!) but there's one here: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=50.0760&lon=3.1446&layers=101465209&b=1. I think it shows the German trenches only.

Here is a later map (Oct 17) that shows both sides: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=50.0776&lon=3.1512&layers=101465206&b=1. Of course, the positions may have changed in the intervening five months. Both maps are overlays on a satellite version of a modern map. You can increase/decrease the transparency. 

I'm sure someone else will find a better one.

Acknown

[PRC]

1 hour ago, John French said:

could the map be in 118 Brigade or 40 Division war diaries?  Do you have a link I could research?

 

 

The 12 Suffolks were in the 121st Brigade. Brigade War Diaries are my personal preference for maps - even if their copy of the 12th Suffolks War Diary doesn't include them, other Brigade units may well do.

 

I don't know if it adds anyting to whats in the War Diary, but the Official Regiment History has this to say:-

"On May 5 a raid on a large scale was carried out by the 119th and 121st Brigades on the village of La Vacquerie, the 8th Division making a similar effort on the right. The 12th Battalion furnished two companies, each a hundred strong. “C” Company (Captain F.Miskin), on the left, making for an isolated group of trenches, which they found unoccupied, and “D” Company (Captain A.V.Crump), on the right, for the trenches in front of La Vacquerie. “D” Company’s right boundary was a partly sunken road, in which the Germans had concealed a machine-gun. This company, held up by stretches of uncut wire, and by violent rifle and machine gun fire, was forced to retire, the casualties included Captain A.V.Crump, wounded. On the way back a section under Sgt.J.F.Lovell, encountered a German patrol, four of whom were captured and brought in, for which exploit he was awarded the D.C.M. The vigorous nature of the opposition met with on this occasion showed that the Germans intended to cling to the Hindenburg line with all the means in their power."

Pages 255-256 “The History of the Suffolk Regiment 1914-1927” by Lieutenant-Colonel C.C.R Murphy.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

Edited 2 June , 2019 by PRC
Format

[Acknown]

Here's the 121 Brigade WD for the period (12/Suffolks were in that brigade): https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43849_2613_0-00000?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=43849_2613_0-00000. A quick scan shows it to be rather muddled but if you go through it, you might strike lucky.

Acknown

[John French]

Thanks to everyone who provided information on Private Whitman - I have now everything I need.

 

Peter, the extract from the Suffolk's Official History was just what I needed to put Whitman's death in perspective and I have quoted it in total (with appropriate attribution).

 

Acknown, thanks for 121 Brigade war diaries, but no map of the La Vacquerie action.  I was unable to use effectively the other web-sites you suggested, so I have used my existing black and white map with some additional overlays.  

[PRC]

On 02/06/2019 at 22:23, PRC said:

 

"On May 5 a raid on a large scale was carried out by the 119th and 121st Brigades on the village of La Vacquerie, the 8th Division making a similar effort on the right.

 

 

Just took a quick look and found this in the War Diary of the 2nd Northamptons in 24th Brigade of the 8th Division.

 

5th May 1917 E. of Villers – Guislans

 

The 23rd Brigade between 10 p.m. and 1 a.m in conjunction with the 40th Division on the left of the battalion, carried out a raid on SONNET FARM and LA VACQUERIE with moderate success. There was some artillery retaliation on our front.

 

The 23rd Brigade War Diary may be another potential source for a contemporary map that covers the area.

 

Cheers,

Peter