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NR72

RND Officer help

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NR72

Hi all

 

This is a tough one, sharing this 

 

Can anyone identify this otherwise unknown officer pictured at Blandford Camp? The photograph was in Thomas Otto Hartshorn's collection and written on the reverse is "Yours Sincerely, C.G.S.B."

Roy Swales, who wrote "Nelson at War 1914-1918" and whose father served in 14 Section, No.4 Platoon, A Company, Nelson Battalion with Thomas Otto Hartshorn notes that this officer: "is wearing a British Warm with army 'pips' for the army rank of lieutenant (= sub lieutenant Royal Naval Division) which makes me think that this photograph may, in fact, have been taken much later in the war, when Thomas was serving in the RND reserve battalions at Blandford between October 1915 and August 1916. It is quite possible that Thomas, as a man still suffering from the effects of his earlier illness could have been made an officer's servant during this period (especially given his address [on a postcard home to wife Sally on Saturday 15th January 1916] as 'Officers' Mess'). In that case we are looking for an unknown officer in the 1st Reserve Battalion."

 

 

Definitely late war , but who is he ?

 

Any ideas 

FB_IMG_1559156112121.jpg

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NR72

Looks good doesn't it 

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helpjpl
Posted (edited)
On 29/05/2019 at 20:43, michaeldr said:

Purely on the basis of the initials, it might be C G Bowles

see https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/269257/bowles,-/

 

On 29/05/2019 at 21:09, NR72 said:

Looks good doesn't it 

 

Portraits of Lloyd's Men Whose Names Appear On Lloyd's War Memorial 1914-1918.

Sub-Lieut. Geoffrey C. Bowles, Drake Btn, RN Div, RNVR - KIA April 1917:

http://ww1photos.com/Books/LloydsMenWarMemorial1.html

 

Geoffrey C Bowles.jpg

 

JP

Edited by helpjpl
to add photo

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NR72

Thank you !

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NR72

This chap seems familiar any ideas on his identity ?

Screenshot_20190628-203123_Gmail.jpg

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Sepoy
1 hour ago, NR72 said:

This chap seems familiar any ideas on his identity ?

Screenshot_20190628-203123_Gmail.jpg


I believe that this is the photograph of Sub Lieutenant Guy Proudfoot Cooke, “Nelson” Battalion, Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, who was Killed in Action at ANZAC on 3rd May, 1915.

Sepoy

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NR72

Thanks Sepoy it was John Hartshorn who asked me who it was ! 

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NR72

I don't believe it is Cooke i have his photo from a newspaper listing and he doesnt look like this man

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horatio2

The two images are posed at exactly the same place and, probably, on the same date. (Compare the marks on the wooden hut.)

I have not followed the logic which led from the officer who signed himself "C.G.S.B." to Sub Lt Geoffrey C BOWLES (G.C.B.). I have searched the Officers' Medal Roll and I cannot find an officer with those initials. Nor the the two images look like the same officer. Has "C.G.S.B." been transcribed correctly?

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michaeldr
1 hour ago, horatio2 said:

I have not followed the logic which led from the officer who signed himself "C.G.S.B." to Sub Lt Geoffrey C BOWLES (G.C.B.).

 

Ahhh, H2,
 

Alas, logic was never one of my stronger suits

however, I did say that this name was suggested

On 29/05/2019 at 20:43, michaeldr said:

Purely on the basis of the initials,

Perhaps I should have added

'not in any particular order'

 

Now would perhaps be a good time for me to withdraw from this guessing game

Good luck to all with this research

Michael

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NR72
Posted (edited)

With regard to the initials C.G.S.B  to G.C.B  it could be that he didnt like or use his given christian name ? 

43 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

 

Ahhh, H2,
 

Alas, logic was never one of my stronger suits

however, I did say that this name was suggested

Perhaps I should have added

'not in any particular order'

 

Now would perhaps be a good time for me to withdraw from this guessing game

Good luck to all with this research

Michael

 

2 hours ago, horatio2 said:

The two images are posed at exactly the same place and, probably, on the same date. (Compare the marks on the wooden hut.)

I have not followed the logic which led from the officer who signed himself "C.G.S.B." to Sub Lt Geoffrey C BOWLES (G.C.B.). I have searched the Officers' Medal Roll and I cannot find an officer with those initials. Nor the the two images look like the same officer. Has "C.G.S.B." been transcribed correctly?

Yes the photos were taken at Blandford camp 

Edited by NR72

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horatio2
40 minutes ago, NR72 said:

Yes the photos were taken at Blandford camp 

Perhaps I should have stated, to be more clear, that the images were taken at exactly the same spot in Blandford Camp - outside the same window of the same hut.

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NR72
3 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

Perhaps I should have stated, to be more clear, that the images were taken at exactly the same spot in Blandford Camp - outside the same window of the same hut.

No i understood you....but how does that help in identifying them?

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helpjpl
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, horatio2 said:

I have not followed the logic which led from the officer who signed himself "C.G.S.B." to Sub Lt Geoffrey C BOWLES (G.C.B.). I have searched the Officers' Medal Roll and I cannot find an officer with those initials. Nor the the two images look like the same officer. Has "C.G.S.B." been transcribed correctly?

 

I agree. "C.G.S.B." does not look like the Geoffrey Charles Bowles (Portraits of Lloyd's Men Whose Names Appear On Lloyd's War Memorial 1914-1918).

 

The only man I can find with the initials C.G.S.B is Charles George Sidney Bolt but he did not serve in the Great War:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7830315

MID in 1945:

Colour Sergeant (Acting Temporary Regimental Quartermaster Sergeant) Charles George Sidney Bolt, R.M., Ply. 22587.

 

JP

Edited by helpjpl

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horatio2
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, NR72 said:

but how does that help in identifying them?

It does not.

But if (a big if) the second man is Sub Lt GP COOKE RNVR ( and he is tentatively identified as such in the Westminster School link at Post #8) then both images must be dated before March 1915 and not later in the war as postulated in Post #1..

We have two Hartshorn collection images taken on the same unknown date at the same place, one reported (accurately??) as "C.G.S.B." and the other "thought to be" Cooke. What was the Hartshorn evidence for thinking the officer was GP Cooke? I do not think it is Cooke.

This is the only other image I have seen of Cooke:-    

SUB LT GP COOKE -2.jpg

Edited by horatio2

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Sepoy

There is a labelled photograph of Cooke wearing civilian clothes on Ancestry, which does not look like either photograph (including the above photograph which was used to provide a head and shoulders photo published in the “War Illustrated” of 29th May, 1915.), but all three show him with a sad expression. The Ancestry Photo and the photograph of Cooke, in front of the hut, show quite distinctive ear shapes (even if the photos are at slightly different angles.) and I think it could well be him.

See the Ancestry photo here

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/tree/71026984/person/38252984461/media/f392b143-493c-4c63-b516-49b20703cfef


I hope this makes sense. It has been a very long day, following a phone call for all my Family to attend my 85 year old Mother's bedside because she was dying. Strangely, she perked up quite a lot when everyone arrived.....
 

 

 

 

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NR72
13 hours ago, Sepoy said:

There is a labelled photograph of Cooke wearing civilian clothes on Ancestry, which does not look like either photograph (including the above photograph which was used to provide a head and shoulders photo published in the “War Illustrated” of 29th May, 1915.), but all three show him with a sad expression. The Ancestry Photo and the photograph of Cooke, in front of the hut, show quite distinctive ear shapes (even if the photos are at slightly different angles.) and I think it could well be him.

See the Ancestry photo here

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/tree/71026984/person/38252984461/media/f392b143-493c-4c63-b516-49b20703cfef


I hope this makes sense. It has been a very long day, following a phone call for all my Family to attend my 85 year old Mother's bedside because she was dying. Strangely, she perked up quite a lot when everyone arrived.....
 

 

 

 

Thanks Sepoy , i cant follow the link as i do not have an ancestry account 

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NR72
20 hours ago, helpjpl said:

 

I agree. "C.G.S.B." does not look like the Geoffrey Charles Bowles (Portraits of Lloyd's Men Whose Names Appear On Lloyd's War Memorial 1914-1918).

 

The only man I can find with the initials C.G.S.B is Charles George Sidney Bolt but he did not serve in the Great War:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7830315

MID in 1945:

Colour Sergeant (Acting Temporary Regimental Quartermaster Sergeant) Charles George Sidney Bolt, R.M., Ply. 22587.

 

JP

Oh really  i think it does 

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