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Miniature Clasps to British War Medal

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Cassidy Medals

Hi....I'm looking for the list of Clasps which were under consideration for the BWM....there is a Navy List and an Army list....thanks Gary

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MerchantOldSalt

Gary

I am no medal expert but it is my understanding from papers at the National Archive that the proposals by the two  committees that considered the clasps to the BWM in 1919, one Naval and the other Military, only published the recommendations for the Royal Navy, the Army and RAF recommendations were never published, that statement is quite old WW2 vintage so something may have come to light since.

 

The proposals for the Navy were approved by His Majesty in 1920 and printed in Admiralty Weekly Order 2051 of August 1920, this can be found at the National Archives under ADM 182/27 I think. No claps were actually issued but apparently they did appear on miniature medals worn by RN Officers.

 

I do have a copy of 2051 showing the proposed clasps, dates and services and areas for which they are to be awarded but it is 7 pages long and would take some time to reproduce here, if you can't get to Kew and only want the names on the clasps without the dates and details I could put a list on here.  Depends how much detail you are after.

 

TH

Edited by MerchantOldSalt

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RNCVR

Just picked up on this 2019 topic concerning 1WW Miniature clasps to the BWM.

I have a couple RN groups with the miniature clasps, & a few loose clasps that I have picked up over the years so will show them here.

 

The RN BWM clasps were actually authorized, apparently 68 clasps were recommended, of which 45 were authorized. 

79 clasps were recommended for the Army but never authorized.  However the BWM clasps were subsequently abandoned due to expense involved.

But one sees occasionally the miniature clasps to the RN as many of the post war serving RN Officers had them mounted on their miniature BWM's.

 

First the miniature group to Admiral Dudley de Chair, RN. Up until mid 1916  Adm deChair was Vice Admiral commanding the 10th Cruiser Sqdn.

 

Thanks, Bryan

De Chair Dudley minis2.JPG

De Chair Dudley ww1.JPG

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RNCVR

Couple more miniature trios to show the various RN BWM clasps ....

minis 003.JPG

minis 004.JPG

minis 009.JPG

minis 013.JPG

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RNCVR

Over the years I have picked up various single miniature BWM clasps - here are some examples......

 

Thanks, Bryan

mini bwm 001.JPG

mini bwm 003.JPG

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FROGSMILE

Absolutely superb collection, Bryan, thank you for showing them.  I had never heard of these clasps for the BWM and it's very interesting to learn of them.  As for "too expensive", when it comes to the British Government, plus ca change.....

Edited by FROGSMILE

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RNCVR

Thanks Froggie!  Appreciate yr comments, thought some of our mates might like to view these clasps.  I just happened by this topic when searching thru the Medals section.

I dont have them all, only what you see here, am missing about 1\2 of them, but they just dont come up often, actually I have not seen any for at least the last 5 yrs at least!

I have seen them come up at auctions with their full size groups.

 

I can understand the reluctance of the UK gov't of the time not wishing to get into production of the BWM clasps, the Great War must have cost a fortune & am certain the war debt ran well into the next war!  Same thing happened with the naming of the 2WW medals here in Canada & in Uk also.

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TullochArd

.....  the British and Commonwealth Badge Forum have covered this one as well.  (Photo B&CBF) 

 

Clasps BWM.jpg

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RNCVR

Thanks for posting Tulloch, I am a member of the B&CBF but never picked up on the clasps.

 

Looks like the complete lot!

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Sepoy

These

5 hours ago, RNCVR said:

Just picked up on this 2019 topic concerning 1WW Miniature clasps to the BWM.

I have a couple RN groups with the miniature clasps, & a few loose clasps that I have picked up over the years so will show them here.

 

The RN BWM clasps were actually authorized, apparently 68 clasps were recommended, of which 45 were authorized. 

79 clasps were recommended for the Army but never authorized.  However the BWM clasps were subsequently abandoned due to expense involved.

But one sees occasionally the miniature clasps to the RN as many of the post war serving RN Officers had them mounted on their miniature BWM's.

 

First the miniature group to Admiral Dudley de Chair, RN. Up until mid 1916  Adm deChair was Vice Admiral commanding the 10th Cruiser Sqdn.

 

Thanks, Bryan

De Chair Dudley minis2.JPG

De Chair Dudley ww1.JPG

Thank you for posting these photos of Miniature British War Medals with clasps. I have one miniature BWM with North Sea clasps hidden away somewhere, but I have always wanted to pick up a couple of Miniature Groups with Gallipoli or East Africa related clasps.

From memory there is a full list of the Army and Navy clasps in Dorling Taprell (Taffrail)'s "Ribbons and Medals".

Sepoy

NB Admiral DeChair's group is most impressive!

Edited by Sepoy

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RNCVR

 

Thank you for posting these photos of Miniature British War Medals with clasps. I have one miniature BWM with North Sea clasps hidden away somewhere, but I have always wanted to pick up a couple of Miniature Groups with Gallipoli or East Africa related clasps.

Sepoy
NB Admiral DeChair's group is most impressive!

 

Thanks Sepoy,

Att'd a post war photo portrait of Adm de Chair....

De Chair portrait.jpg

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Keith_history_buff
17 hours ago, RNCVR said:

Over the years I have picked up various single miniature BWM clasps - here are some examples......

 

Thanks, Bryan

mini bwm 001.JPG

 

 

I'm intrigued as to this man's colourful career, based upon those clasps.

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RNCVR
37 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

 

I'm intrigued as to this man's colourful career, based upon those clasps.

 

Not awarded to one man, a selection of miniature clasps that I have acquired over the years.

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Cassidy Medals

Thanks for sharing photos of your Miniature Naval Clasps.......I have a few clasps myself.......Photos attached.......

 

Does anyone have the Army list of Clasps that were authorised?

 

Cheers  Gary

Naval Bars Gps.1.JPG

Naval Bars Gps.2.JPG

Naval bars singles.1.JPG

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Cassidy Medals
On 28/05/2019 at 22:51, MerchantOldSalt said:

Gary

I am no medal expert but it is my understanding from papers at the National Archive that the proposals by the two  committees that considered the clasps to the BWM in 1919, one Naval and the other Military, only published the recommendations for the Royal Navy, the Army and RAF recommendations were never published, that statement is quite old WW2 vintage so something may have come to light since.

 

The proposals for the Navy were approved by His Majesty in 1920 and printed in Admiralty Weekly Order 2051 of August 1920, this can be found at the National Archives under ADM 182/27 I think. No claps were actually issued but apparently they did appear on miniature medals worn by RN Officers.

 

I do have a copy of 2051 showing the proposed clasps, dates and services and areas for which they are to be awarded but it is 7 pages long and would take some time to reproduce here, if you can't get to Kew and only want the names on the clasps without the dates and details I could put a list on here.  Depends how much detail you are after.

 

TH

 

Hi TH

 

Thanks for your reply. I believe that there is an Army List of miniature clasps. I had a hard copy once but having moved a number of times in the past 6 years....and with a lot of my collection and reference material now in storage......I couldn't seem to find it when I went looking for it.........sigh. 

 

Since starting this post I have obtained a copy of the Navy list complete with criteria for their award. Previously I just had the list of clasps.

 

I have written to the UK National Archives re the Army List....but due to the current pandemic I believe that they are closed........so I haven't received a reply....it may even be that I will have to send another message once they re-open.

 

Cheers

Gary  

 

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RNCVR

Gary, that is a very nice collection of Miniature groups & miniature BWM clasps you have!  Very impressive!

 

British Battles & Medals(7th Ed) gives a listing of the 45 RN Miniature clasps that were authorized.   68 RN clasps were apparently recommended, & for the Army 79 were recommended.

 

Howard Williamson's 1WW Medal Companion gives a listing also of the various RN clasps authorized & the qualifying areas.

I only have a poor copy of the 4 pages, if he mentions the Army clasps I dont have them.

 

Thanks, Bryan

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Puttenham

Wonderful collection, thank you !

 

 

 

 

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michaeldr

It's interesting (perhaps) that there seems to be an element of fashion in these things

The 1930 portrait photograph by Bassano of Sir Gilbert Stephenson shows no clasps

however the later painting by Alan Mold shows the admiral wearing six (see the cover of 'The Terror of Tobermory')

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RNCVR

Thanks Michael,  I know of  "The Terror of Tobermory" & read it a few yrs back, & when this virus crap is over will get a copy & read again. 

VAdm Stephenson was quite a man, ahead of his time, & a hard taskmaster but he knew how to train crews in Anti Submarine.

 

Interestingly, I have the medal group of an RCN Officer who was the first RCN Anti Submarine Specialist in the 1930's. Early in 2WW he was posted to Tobermory to train & learn new methods under Adm Stephenson & returned to Canada afterwards to set up the Anti Sub Division here in Canada.  The RCN during 2WW was in the main an Anti Submarine force, & this specialty continued post 2WW into the 1950-60's period.

 

I will attach a couple of photos of Adm Stephenson which you mention in yr post.  Unfortunately in the painting on the book cover one cannot make out the specific BWM mini clasps but they are visible. interesting also his 2WW Defence & War medals had not been issued when he sat for his portrait.

 

Thanks, Bryan

 

National Portrait Gallery photo of Rear Adm Gilbert Stephenson....

download (1).png

Stephenson.jpg

Edited by RNCVR

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michaeldr
12 hours ago, RNCVR said:

VAdm Stephenson was quite a man, ahead of his time, & a hard taskmaster but he knew how to train crews in Anti Submarine

 

Thanks Brian,

 

As I think I have mentioned before on the forum, he was well respected by my late father who passed through his training regime at the Western Isles, not once but twice (on different ships). I am lucky enough to have a copy of The Terror of Tobermory, which previously belonged to an officer (captained corvettes & a frigate) who managed to get both the admiral and Richard Baker to sign it for him.

 

best regards

Michael

 

edit to add: It speaks volumes doesn't it, that even when he was First Sea Lord, Mountbatten still addressed Stephenson as 'Sir'

Edited by michaeldr

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RNCVR

Finally was able to locate a listing of the recommended clasps for the British War Medal. From another Forum posted  many yrs ago.....

Its quite lengthy......

I have to say I have never seen any examples of Army clasps to the BWM.....perhaps someone has an examples(s) to show?

 

1 Mons Battle of Mons 23 & 24 August 1914
2 Le Cateau Battle of Le Cateau 26 August 1914
3 Retreat from Mons 23 August to 5 September 1914
4 Marne 1914 Battle of the Marne 7 to 10 September 1914
5 Aisne 1914 Battle of Aisne 12 to 15 September 1914
6 Antwerp Defence of Antwerp 4 to 10 October 1914
7 La Bassee 1914 Battle of La Bassee 10 October to 2 November 1914
8 Messines 1914 Battle of Messines 12 October to 2 November 1914
9 Armentieres 1914 Battle of Armentieres 13 October to 2 November 1914
10 Ypres 1914 Battle of Langemarck 19 October to 22 November 1914
Battle of Gheluvelt
Battle of Nonne Bosschen
11 Festubert 1914 Defence of Festubert 23 & 24 November 1914
12 Givenchy 1914 Defence of Givenchy 20 & 21 December 1914
13 Neuve Chapelle Battle of Neuve Chapelle 10 to 13 March 1915
14 Hill 60 Capture of Hill 60 17 to 22 April 1915
15 Ypres 1915 Battle of Gravenstafel Ridge 22 & 23 April 1915
Battle of St Julien 24 April to 4 May 1915
Battle of Frezenberg Ridge 8 to 13 May 1915
Battle of Bellewaarde Ridge 22 & 25 May 1915
16 Aubers Attack on Fromelles 9 May 1915
Attack on Rue de Bois
17 Festubert 1915 Battle of Festubert 15 to 25 May 1915
18 Hooge 1915 Actions at Hooge 19 & 30 July & 9 August 1915
19 Loos Battle of Loos 25 September to 8 October 1915

 

20 Mount Sorrel Battle of Mount Sorrel 2 to 13 June 1916
21 Somme 1916 Battle of Albert 1 to 13 July 1916
Battle of Bazentin Ridge 14 to 17 July 1916
Battle of Delville Wood 15 July to 3 September 1916
Battle of Pozieres Ridge 23 July to 3 September 1916
Battle of Guillemont 3 to 6 September 1916
Battle of Ginchy 9 September 1916
Battle of Flers Courcelette 15 to 22 September 1916
Battle of Morval 25 to 28 September 1916
Battle of Thiepval Ridge 26 to 28 September 1916
Battle of the Transloy Heights 1 to 18 October 1916
Battle of the Ancre Heights 1 October to 11 November 1916
Battle of Ancre 13 to 18 November 1916
22 Bapaume 1917 Capture of Bapaume 17 March 1917
Battle of Vimy Ridge 9 to 14 April 1917
First Battle of the Scarpe 9 to 14 April 1917
23 Arras 1917 Second Battle of the Scarpe 23 & 24 April 1917
Battle of Arleux 28 & 29 April 1917
Third Battle of the Scarpe 3 & 4 May 1917
24 Oppy Capture of Oppy Wood 28 June 1917
25 Bullecourt Battle of Bullecourt 15 to 25 August 1917
26 Hill 70 Battle of Hill 70 15 to 25 August 1917
27 Messines 1917 Battle of Messines 7 to 14 June 1917
28 Ypres 1917 Battle of Pilkem Ridge 31 July to 2 August 1917
Battle of Langemarck 16 to 18 August 1917
Battle of the Menin Road Ridge 20 to 25 September 1917
Battle of Polygon Wood 26 September to 3 October 1917
Battle of Broodseinde 4 October 1917
Battle of Poelcappelle 9 October 1917
First Battle of Passchendaele 4 October 1917
2nd Battle of Passchendaele 26 October to 10 November 1917
29 Cambrai 1917 Battle of Cambrai 20 November to 3 December 1917

 

30 Somme 1918 Battle of Posieres 26 to 27 March 1918
First Battle of Arras 28 March 1918
Battle of the Avre 4 April 1918
Battle of the Ancre 5 April 1918
31 Villers Bretonneux Actions of Villers Bretonneux 24 & 25 April 1918
32 Helles Landing at Cape Helles 25 & 26 April 1915
First Battle of Krithia 28 April 1915
Second Battle of Krithia 6 to 8 May 1915
Third Battle of Krithia 4 June 1915
33 Anzac Landing at Anzac 25 & 26 April 1915
Defence of Anzac 19 to 21 May 1915
34 Suvla Battle of Sari Bair 6 to 10 August 1915
Landing at Suvla 6 to 15 August 1915
Battle of Scimitar Hill 21 August 1915
35 Agagiya Actions of Agagiya 26 February 1916
36 Suez Canal Actions on the Suez Canal 3 & 4 February 1915
37 Rumani Battle of Rumani 4 & 5 August 1916
38 Rafah Action of Rafah 9 January 1917
39 Gaza First Battle of Gaza 26 & 27 March 1917
Second Battle of Gaza 17 to 19 April 1917
Third Battle of Gaza 27 October to 7 November 1917

 

40 El Mughar Action of El Mughar 13 November 1917
41 Nebi Samwil Battle of Nebi Samwil 17 to 24 November 1917
42 Jerusalem Capture of Jerusalem 7 to 9 December 1917
Defence of Jerusalem 26 to 30 December 1917
43 Jaffa Battle of Jaffa 21 & 22 December 1917
44 Jericho Capture of Jericho 19 to 21 February 1918
45 Lys Battle of Estaires 9 to 11 April 1918
Battle of Messines 10 to 11 April 1918
Battle of Hasebrouck 12 to 15 April 1915
Battle of Bailleul 13 to 15 April 1918
1st Battle of Kemmel Ridge 17 to 19 April 1918
Battle of Bethune 18 April 1918
2nd Battle of Kemmel Ridge 25 & 26 April 1918
Battle of Scherpenberg 29 April 1918
46 Aisne 1918 Battle of Aisne 27 May to 6 June 1918
47 Marne 1918 Battle of Soissonnaise and of the Ourcq 23 July to 2 August 1918
Battle of the Tardenois 20 to 31 July 1918
48 Amiens Battle of Amiens 8 to 11 August 1918
49 Somme 1918 Battle of Albert 21 to 23 August 1918
2nd Battle of Bapaume 31 August to 3 September 1918

 

 

 

50 Arras 1918 Battle of Scarpe 26 to 30 August 1918
Battle of the Drocourt – Queant Line 2 & 3 September 1918
51 Hindenburg Line Battle of St Quentin Canal 29 September to 2 October 1918
Battle of the Beaurevoir Line 3 to 5 October 1918
Battle of Haverincourt 12 September 1918
Battle of Epehy 18 September 1918
Battle of the Canal due Nord 27 September to 1 October 1918
Battle of Cambrai 8 & 9 October 1918
52 Ypres 1918 Battle of Ypres 28 September to 2 October 1918
53 Courtrai Battle of Courtrai 14 to 19 October 1918
54 Selle Battle of Selle 17 to 25 October 1918
55 Valenciennes Battle of Valenciennes 1 & 2 November 1918
56 Sambre Battle of Sambre 4 November 1918
57 Pursuit to Mons To those who do not qualify for “Ypres 1918” 28 September to 11 November 1918
“Courtrai” “Selle” “Sambre” or “Valenciennes”
58 Isonzo 10th Battle of Isonzo 12 May to 8 June 1917
11th Battle of Isonzo 17 August to 12 September 1917
12th Battle of Isonzo 24 October to 18 November 1917
59 Piave Battle of the Piave 15 to 24 June 1918

 

60 Vittorio Veneto Battle of Vittorio Veneto 24 October to 4 November 1918
61 Kosturino Actions of Kosturino 7 & 8 December 1915
62 Struma Actions of the Karajakois including 30 September to 4 October 1916
Capture of Yenikoi
Affair of Barakli Juma’s 31 October 1916
63 Doiran 1917 Battle of Doiran 24 & 25 April and 8 & 9 May 1917
64 Doiran 1918 Battle of Doiran 18 & 19 September 1918
65 Jordan Passage of the Jordan Turkish 21 to 23 March 1918
Attack on the Jordan Bridgeheads 11 April 1918
66 Tell’Asur Actions of Tell’Asur 8 to 12 March 1918
67 Megiddo Battle of Sharon 19 to 25 September 1918
Battle of Nablus
68 Damascus Capture of Damascus 1 October 1918
69 Aden Action of Lahej 4 & 5 July 1915
Affair of Sheikh’Othman 20 July 1915
Affair of Jabir 7 December 1916
Affair of Imad 22 October 1918

 

70 Baars Affair of Saihan 15 November 1914
Affair of Sahil 17 November 1914
71 Shaiba Battle of Shaib 12 to 14 April 1915
72 Kut al Amara 1915 Battle of Kut 28 September 1915
73 Ctesiphon Battle of Ctesiphon 22 to 24 November 1915
74 Defence of Kut.Al Defence of Kut 7 December 1917 to 28 April 1918
Amara
75 Tigris 1916 1st Attempt to Relieve Kut 4 to 23 January 1916
2nd Attempt to Relieve Kut 7 to 10 March 1916
3rd Attempt to Relieve Kut 1 to 24 April 1916
76 Kut Al Amara 1917 Battle of Kut 9 January to 24 February 1917
77 Baghdad Pursuit to Baghdad 25 February to 10 March 1917
78 Khan Baghdadi Action of Kahan Baghdadi 26 & 27 March 1917
79 Sharqat Battle of Sharqat 28 to 30 October 1918

 

80 Merv Affairs near Kaakhka 28 August & 11 & 18 September 1918
Action at Dushak 12 October 1918
Action at Annankovo 16 January 1919
81 Baku Defence of Baku 26 August to 15 September 1918
82 Troitaa Battle of Troitaa 10 August 1919
83 Dukhovakaya Battle of Dukhovakaya 23 & 24 August 1918
84 Tsingtao Siege of Tsingtao 23 September to 7 November 1914
85 Herbertshobe Affair of Herbertshobe 12 September 1914
86 Kilimanjara Action of Latema Nek 11 & 12 March 1916
Action of Kabe 21 March 1916
87 Behobeho Action of Behobeho 3 & 4 January 1917
88 Narungombe Action of Narungombe 19 July 1917
89 Nyangao Action of Nyangao 16 to 19 October 1917

 

90 Gibeon Action of Gibeon 25 & 26 April 1915
91 Kamina Affair of Agbeluvoe 15 & 16 August 1914
Affair of Khra 22 & 23 August 1914
92 Duala Affair of Naanakang 6 September 1914
Capture of Duala 26 & 27 September 1914
Capture of Yabasi 14 October 1914
Capture of Busa and the Cameroon Mountain 14 & 15 November 1914
93 Garua Capture of Garua 31 May to 10 June 1915
94 Banyo Capture of Banyo 4 to 6 November 1915

Edited by RNCVR

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GrenPen

  

5 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

Finally was able to locate a listing of the recommended clasps for the British War Medal. From another Forum posted  many yrs ago.....



Source:

Source:
“The Suggested Clasps for the Army, to the British War Medal 1914 – 1920 ;
by B.G. Faulconbridge, Northumbrian Medal Society

 

via

British Medal Forum

 



 

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Cassidy Medals

Awesome.....thanks for sharing the proposed Army Clasp list. :)

 

One of my long term ambitions has been to research a WW1 medal recipient.....using his Service Records and Battalion War Diaries etc to see if i can work out what clasps he may have been entitled to for his BWM. Previously there wasn't enough information available....but now there' seems to be a shed load.......I'll see how I go....watch this space.

 

Cheers

Gary  

 

 

 

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depaor01

Wow. Now it's easy to understand why the clasp idea was abandoned. Especially if they would've had to be claimed. 

Dave

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