bartensabien Posted 27 April , 2019 Share Posted 27 April , 2019 Good morning, Attached a picture of a WW1 spoon found by a friend in his garden. Ypres region) Is GOR the abbriviation of the unit or regiment ? and is 1236 the registration number of the soldier ? Regards from the cold and windy Belgium BArt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 27 April , 2019 Share Posted 27 April , 2019 GOR probably stands for Gordon Highlanders, and yes, 1236 would have been the soldier's regimental number. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 27 April , 2019 Share Posted 27 April , 2019 Yes Gordon Highlanders. M.I.C on ancestry shows one result for 1236, Alexander Stuart. https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=bnx5&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=medalrolls&cp=0&_F00061C3=Gordon highlanders&_F00061C3_x=1&_F8007A65=1236&_F8007A65_x=1&new=1&rank=1&uidh=l37&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&h=4989276&recoff=&ml_rpos=1 Nice find, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 April , 2019 Share Posted 27 April , 2019 A wound report on FmP gives that 1. He was aged 21 when wounded 18 May 1915 with a GSW 2. He had been serving 2 to 3 years on that date 3. He appears to have been with 1st Gordons and landed in France from MIC in Aug 1914 So a pre-war regular, but with such a common name , unless someone gets anything else, it will be difficult to find his birth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartensabien Posted 29 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 29 April , 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 12:48, corisande said: A wound report on FmP gives that 1. He was aged 21 when wounded 18 May 1915 with a GSW 2. He had been serving 2 to 3 years on that date 3. He appears to have been with 1st Gordons and landed in France from MIC in Aug 1914 So a pre-war regular, but with such a common name , unless someone gets anything else, it will be difficult to find his birth Thanks all. It will indeed very dufficult to return the spoon to the family. Regards from the sunny Belgium. (yesterday 8°Celsius, today 19°C) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartensabien Posted 29 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 29 April , 2019 Small update: His second name starts with J regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 30 April , 2019 Share Posted 30 April , 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 03:27, Ron Clifton said: GOR probably stands for Gordon Highlanders, and yes, 1236 would have been the soldier's regimental number. Ron Just an observation but I think 1236 would be a BATTALION number, not a unique army number (assigned to battalions in blocks) so up until the change to unique army-wide numbers there would have been a 1236 in each battalion of the Gordons. I don't think there were "regimental numbers" per se. Happy to be corrected but this is my understanding. I could not find 1236 in my 1/4th Gordons numbers but I did find 1237 (a 1913 member of D Coy) so 1236 (in the 1/4 battalion) was assigned pre war (1913). Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel1942 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 Hi there Bart, and to everyone else on this thread, I was astounded to find this discussion upon researching a set of medals that I recently saved from the garbage in a suburb of British Columbia, Canada. In a Princess Mary tin, I found a swing-mounted WW1 trio (Mons start, BWM and Victory medal) named to this man - Piper A Stuart, 1236, of the Gordon Highlanders. Along with the medals was what appears to be a custom made Gordon Highlanders badge, an identity bracelet with Stuart's details engraved on it, as well as a silver medallion, dated to February 1918, and evidently awarded to him for sword dancing! I only finished framing and displaying them yesterday, and didn't bother doing much research on them until now - when I came across this thread. How incredibly remarkable it is to see that his spoon - after all of these years, and against all odds - has been found. I would love to reunite the spoon with the rest of this man's items. I would also love to be able to find out where exactly the spoon was found, as it would enable us to pinpoint where Alexander stood, at least for a moment, during the War. Bart, I would love to hear from you when you get the chance!! I am thrilled! All the very best, Finn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartensabien Posted 18 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2022 Hi Finn, Let me see what I can do for you. I will contact my friend and forward him your post and the picture of the frame. He wil be very much interested. Do you have the story of the soldier ? What do you know about him. I'm very interested in that kind of information. I'm not a collector, but I do research on men and women tghat fought in WW1. I write their life stories and try to find relatives. So all the info on the man and his regiment is wellcome. Let's reunite spoon and medals !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 3 hours ago, Rommel1942 said: How incredibly remarkable it is to see that his spoon - after all of these years, and against all odds - has been found. There's no guarantee it is his spoon. With any regiment, there would, at the outbreak of war, be 4 or 5 men with the same service number. The Gordon Highlanders had at least 4 men with that number at the start of the war (and possibly some more men later). It would take more work to rule out the other possible owners. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 Hi Rommel1942, In which suburb of BC did you find the medals in the garbage? Any specific address? Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 On 30/04/2019 at 05:22, 4thGordons said: Just an observation but I think 1236 would be a BATTALION number, not a unique army number (assigned to battalions in blocks) so up until the change to unique army-wide numbers there would have been a 1236 in each battalion of the Gordons. Not quite. In the Regular Army, numbers were assigned in each regiment. Duplicate numbers existed in the TF battalions, but these were eliminated in the re-numbering of 1917. By the time that medals were awarded, the number and the regiment would identify the soldier uniquely. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 7 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said: Not quite. In the Regular Army, numbers were assigned in each regiment. Duplicate numbers existed in the TF battalions, but these were eliminated in the re-numbering of 1917. By the time that medals were awarded, the number and the regiment would identify the soldier uniquely. Ron Hi All, As Ron has posted..confirmed by his MIC and medal award rolls already posted. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 Until we can rule out any other #1236 Gordon we can't say for certain it was A Stuart - it would need to be checked against all of the other men who could have been #1236 Gordon's, both whilst they were serving as #1236 and under any later number (it's quite possible for #1236 to have served on under a later number and just not changed his spoon). So far it appears just to be an assumption it is A Stuart. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel1942 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 3 hours ago, bartensabien said: Hi Finn, Let me see what I can do for you. I will contact my friend and forward him your post and the picture of the frame. He wil be very much interested. Do you have the story of the soldier ? What do you know about him. I'm very interested in that kind of information. I'm not a collector, but I do research on men and women tghat fought in WW1. I write their life stories and try to find relatives. So all the info on the man and his regiment is wellcome. Let's reunite spoon and medals !! The only information I have found on Alexander Stuart so far has come from this discussion. Everything seen in the frame came from a person who cleared out houses prior to demolition, and unfortunately he did not recall exactly which house it came from. The items in the box are all that remain. Thanks so much for forwarding all of this to your friend! I look forward to any updates on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel1942 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said: Until we can rule out any other #1236 Gordon we can't say for certain it was A Stuart - it would need to be checked against all of the other men who could have been #1236 Gordon's, both whilst they were serving as #1236 and under any later number (it's quite possible for #1236 to have served on under a later number and just not changed his spoon). So far it appears just to be an assumption it is A Stuart. Craig Of course I wouldn't want to jump to any guarantees yet, but to be frank, there is definitely a high chance this is his spoon. I would have to do further due diligence before I could confirm 100%, but needless to say, I have good reason to be excited about this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 1 hour ago, Rommel1942 said: 2 hours ago, ss002d6252 said: Of course I wouldn't want to jump to any guarantees yet, but to be frank, there is definitely a high chance this is his spoon. I'm not entirely convinced we can say there's a high chance yet, it's certainly possible, but without ruling out other men it's not definitive. If someone is willing to investigate the other 3 or 4 men in the regiment with the same number, there is a good chance you can possibly rule them out by virtue of where they served. With some luck, it might be possible to definitely rule out all the other men. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 18 January , 2022 Share Posted 18 January , 2022 13 hours ago, Ron Clifton said: Not quite. In the Regular Army, numbers were assigned in each regiment. Duplicate numbers existed in the TF battalions, but these were eliminated in the re-numbering of 1917. By the time that medals were awarded, the number and the regiment would identify the soldier uniquely. Ron Thanks for the correction Ron, showing my lack of knowledge and TF bias! Not really relevant here - but on your last point if a TF man were killed (before being renumbered in 1917), or wounded and physically downgraded/transferred to the Labor Corps for example, wouldn't the medals issued have been impressed with his original Regiment and battalion number? I have very few medals and am even less knowledge about them but it seems to me that's what they have? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartensabien Posted 20 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2022 good evening, I talked to my friend who has the spoon. I asked if was interested in donating/exchange the spoon. He did not say no, he is doubting. He wants to know for sure if the spoon belonged to that man. Maybe then... I'm sorry, wish could do more. (I don't have the time now to resarch the Gordon Highlanders) Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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