P’03 bayonet conversion from Wilkinson P’88

[Nutting]

Another 1903!  Mk.II P’88 (original manufacture date date 01/01) conversion to P’03.  With a loupe (move over Sherlock!) I can just make out ‘WILK’ of Wilkinson under later marks and the ‘ON’ of London.

 

Not sure of the conversion date, but re-inspection dates of ‘06, ‘07 and ‘08.  Original bend test X partially buffed out, and second bend test X applied.  

 

Probably manufactured too late in its P’88 incarnation to be issued for Boer War service, but with the removal of the original P’88 pommel we’ll never know for sure.  

 

P’03 pommel has struck-through markings for 4th Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders.  They were an Extra Reserve battalion which never went south of Devonport in WW1, so no overseas WW1 service.

 

Grips marked with what looks like 5HY (Hants or Herts Yeomanry?) and 306.  EFD conversion stamp on tip of pommel.  Correct P’03, Land, Mk.I scabbard with broad arrow, 2 inspection stamps and a date of ‘02; sadly, no frog.

 

 

All comments welcome.

 

Nigel.

Edited 30 April , 2019 by Nutting
Errors corrected, photos added

[Dave66]

Nigel,

Another nice find from jersey, scabbard would have had an integral frog which has sadly gone but a nice combination.

 

 

Dave.

 

 

Edited 25 April , 2019 by Dave66

[Nutting]

3 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

Nigel,

Another nice find from jersey, scabbard would have had an integral frog which has sadly gone but a nice combination.

Is there anything stamped on the end of the pommel...the firm that did the conversion usually marked them there (I have one that was converted by Chapman, pic below)

 

 

Dave.

 

End of the pommel is stamped EFD.

 

Nigel

[Dave66]

Missed that in the original post!....nice clear stamping, 

Been looking for one of those scabbards (but with the frog) for a long time, not turning up too often. 

The collection is expanding nicely.

 

Dave.

 

 

[trajan]

An extra interesting thing is the second 'X' mark, with serifs. According to Mike Rose, Twelve inches of Imperial Steel, 185, this style is associated with "Mole, Sanderson, and Chapman", but he goes on to say that: "It is possible that this type were (sic) also used by RSAF Enfield" (stress added). Given how this was converted at Enfield, this would seem to be the case. The earlier simpler mark was (same source and page) was used by Wilkinson and EFD. 

 

Can't recall off-hand a unit mark on the grips before!

[Nutting]

6 hours ago, trajan said:

An extra interesting thing is the second 'X' mark, with serifs. According to Mike Rose, Twelve inches of Imperial Steel, 185, this style is associated with "Mole, Sanderson, and Chapman", but he goes on to say that: "It is possible that this type were (sic) also used by RSAF Enfield" (stress added). Given how this was converted at Enfield, this would seem to be the case. The earlier simpler mark was (same source and page) was used by Wilkinson and EFD. 

 

Can't recall off-hand a unit mark on the grips before!

Trajan,

 

Thanks for the comment.  Going back to the blade and viewing it in different light (it amazes me what you can/can’t see under different lighting conditions) I can just see WILK when using a jeweller’ loupe, so it’s a Wilkinson original converted by Enfield. I’ve edited the OP accordingly.

 

Nigel

[trajan]

4 minutes ago, Nutting said:

Thanks for the comment.  Going back to the blade and viewing it in different light (it amazes me what you can/can’t see under different lighting conditions) I can just see WILK when using a jeweller’ loupe...

 

Happy to help - and indeed, in your photograph one can just see some of the relevant letters on the extreme left-hand-side of the ricasso, before the sideways-on 8 from the ''08' - those 'Wilkinson London' stamps took up the full width of the ricasso. I just checked with one of my Wilkinson P.1888's, a 6/96, and it has an '07' 're-issue' mark like yours on the right hand side and sideways-on, but beneath an '00' mark, while there is an ''04' mark on the other side. It also has an 'X' mark low down on the other side as with yours. 

 

Some time ago SS was apparently cataloguing these multiple marked P.1888's but I haven't seen anything here on that. JMB on the other hand has been working on inspection stamps so he might be able to add more.

[JMB1943]

3 hours ago, trajan said:

Some time ago SS was apparently cataloguing these multiple marked P.1888's but I haven't seen anything here on that. JMB on the other hand has been working on inspection stamps so he might be able to add more.

 

Nigel,

 

I have, as Trajan has said, been recording the inspection stamps on P.88’s.

However, have only taken that on the right ricasso as that was the first applied.

From 10 WILKINSON examples you should expect to see....crown / XY / E

where XY = 35, 40, 49, 58, 66.

Does your eyeglass turn up anything?

 

Your left ricasso markings appear to be,

crown / 34 / E = have not previously seen this, although crown/35/E is common on EFD P.07’s

crown / T9 / E = have not seen, but T6 occurs on WILK, SAND & EFD P.07’s

crown / A5 / E = have not seen, but A6 occurs on WILK P.07’s.

 

Three re-inspection dates is normal for these P.88’s; the latest that I have noted is ‘16.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

[Nutting]

3 hours ago, trajan said:

 

Happy to help - and indeed, in your photograph one can just see some of the relevant letters on the extreme left-hand-side of the ricasso, before the sideways-on 8 from the ''08' - those 'Wilkinson London' stamps took up the full width of the ricasso. I just checked with one of my Wilkinson P.1888's, a 6/96, and it has an '07' 're-issue' mark like yours on the right hand side and sideways-on, but beneath an '00' mark, while there is an ''04' mark on the other side. It also has an 'X' mark low down on the other side as with yours. 

 

Some time ago SS was apparently cataloguing these multiple marked P.1888's but I haven't seen anything here on that. JMB on the other hand has been working on inspection stamps so he might be able to add more.

 

Trajan, on further inspection I can also see the ON of London, so I am happy with that. I had wondered whether anyone was listing the different inspection marks.

 

 Nigel

[Nutting]

2 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

 

Nigel,

 

I have, as Trajan has said, been recording the inspection stamps on P.88’s.

However, have only taken that on the right ricasso as that was the first applied.

From 10 WILKINSON examples you should expect to see....crown / XY / E

where XY = 35, 40, 49, 58, 66.

Does your eyeglass turn up anything?

 

Your left ricasso markings appear to be,

crown / 34 / E = have not previously seen this, although crown/35/E is common on EFD P.07’s

crown / T9 / E = have not seen, but T6 occurs on WILK, SAND & EFD P.07’s

crown / A5 / E = have not seen, but A6 occurs on WILK P.07’s.

 

Three re-inspection dates is normal for these P.88’s; the latest that I have noted is ‘16.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

JMB,

 

Thanks for the info.  I can see the three stamps you mention. I can’t make out what comes between the crown and the E under the ‘07 stamp. I can’t make out anything on the right ricasso; it appears to have been buffed heavily at conversion time.

 

Nigel