Ferguson73uk Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 (edited) Hello All. I am looking into the death of a family member - 187381 Able Seaman Cyril Wintle RN HMS Hyacinth - who was reported killed in action on 15 February 1917. His burial place was poignantly recorded as 'Buried At Ndyimbwa, East Africa, On A Small Knoll Marked By Blazed Tree, R. Bank Kaibiga River, 100 Yards W. of Ndyimbwa-ungwara, 5 Hours From Ndyimbwa. (Map Ref. G.e.f.k.9.d.)' Cyril was born in Ilfracombe but moved to my home town of Barry where he met and married Ada. I should be very grateful for any information as to what action he was involved in on that date. Thanks! Jonathan Edited 24 April , 2019 by Ferguson73uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 The ships logs for HMS Hyacinth can be seen here: https://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-WW1-05-HMS_Hyacinth.htm Unfortunately looks like the entry shown for the 15th February 1917 is actually a duplicate of the 16th. Might be worth contacting the site owner as presumably they have access to the original document. Hope that helps, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson73uk Posted 24 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2019 Many thanks, Peter! Will do. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 He was borne on the books of HMS HYACINTH (the Flagship on the Cape Station) but his record - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6697940 shows that (in brackets) he was actually serving in another ship or elsewhere. I think it may say "Zanzibar" . HYACINTH's log will not help here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson73uk Posted 24 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2019 Thanks, Horatio2! I'll now pursue this lead. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 Of more interest is the log of HMS TALBOT, his previous ship which he left on 2 January 1917. The log records that, on that date, she discharged at Zanzibar one stoker and two seamen to HM Whaler SALAMANDER. Cyril Wintle could have been one of those seamen. SALAMANDER features 82 times in HYACINTH's log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson73uk Posted 24 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2019 That sounds very promising. There was no ship named 'Zanzibar', it appears (though there was one in WW2) so that would fit. Thanks again! Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 Out of interest have you managed to locate the town and river where he was buried? I have had no luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 I cannot find the town, but from other ships logs I got the position of HMW Salamander as below at the relevant time (assuming he was on Salamander). Given he died on 15 Feb, it gives an approx position of the elusive Ndyimbwa a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 On that basis the most likely spot would be the delta of the Rufiji River (where the Koenigsberg was sunk in 1915). There are a fair number of rivers making up the delta But I cannot get any link to the Kaibiga River Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 The log of HMS MERSEY places her and SALAMANDER at the town of Salale in the Rufiji Delta on 15 Feb 1917. SALAMANDER was there between 9.15 and 3.20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 Added Salale to map. And one of the Rufiji River. Possible that Salale is Ndyimbwa ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson73uk Posted 24 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2019 This is great information. Thanks so much everyone! Jonathan 2 hours ago, horatio2 said: Out of interest have you managed to locate the town and river where he was buried? I have had no luck. No, we haven't. We have been looking for some time without success. This latest information is very helpful. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 Still a mystery where he was actually serving when "killed in action". There were several whalers supporting the East Africa campaign including : FLY, PICKLE, CHARON, CHILDERS, ECHO, STYX, PRATTLER and SALAMANDER. It would appear that they were based on Zanzibar and Dar-es-Salaam but cruised widely in theatre including the Rufiji delta. Most of them were coming and going in the delta at some time during the crucial mid-February 1917 date. There were still German troops in the delta so perhaps pot-shots were taken at passing ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 The Times has reports of the area until mid Jan, then nothing till April Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson73uk Posted 25 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2019 Looks like Cyril was a lone casualty on that date. Thanks again both; the rest of my family will also be very interested in what you've discovered! Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 25 April , 2019 Share Posted 25 April , 2019 4 minutes ago, Ferguson73uk said: Looks like Cyril was a lone casualty on that date. Yes, I would be fairly sure he was . If you look on CWGC where the memorial to him is located at Dar es Saalam, you will see that there are only 3 RN casualties on the memorial for the whole of WW1, and no others at the time he died By the way have you tried to find the map ref Map Ref. G.e.f.k.9.d. in your OP. I suspect that someone on the forum has access to WW1 British Military maps for that time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson73uk Posted 26 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2019 No, I haven't been able to locate a map to find the burial site. I'll keep searching though! Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushfighter Posted 27 May , 2019 Share Posted 27 May , 2019 I cannot prove it but I think he may have been on a team of RN Lewis gunners supporting infantry operations. I believe that the team took casualties. I have mentioned the team (originally operating a RN 12-pounder) here: http://www.kaiserscross.com/188001/447622.html Good Luck Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson73uk Posted 2 June , 2019 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2019 Many thanks, Harry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Kotthaus Posted 11 September , 2020 Share Posted 11 September , 2020 I could find a small village Ndyimbwe (not Ndyimbwa) on an old British map. The area should be also correct, but without a River or stream named Kaibiga. Original source: German East Africa. Mohŏro scale 1:300,000 https://digitalcollections.lib.uct.ac.za/collection/islandora-24787 These British maps from 1916, which are now online available, are based on captured German maps1910, which is proved by the many German descriptions. “. . . 5 Hours from Ndyimbwa” Fife hours by British units or the Schutztruppe? ( - - ) Should be worth to post the original source in GWF: https://digitalcollections.lib.uct.ac.za/military-maps?page=1&display=list Cheers Holger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aim Posted 16 November , 2020 Share Posted 16 November , 2020 Could the Tanzanian High Commission help with these localities? aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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