Steve1871 Posted 22 April , 2019 Share Posted 22 April , 2019 I think the M.79 was used by rear, reserve troops, not completely sure, I have 2 any all others I have seen at shows and on line adds, all of them I think, have been regimentally marked has anyone seen pic's of troop's armed with them? Not studio, but regular pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 23 April , 2019 Share Posted 23 April , 2019 Can't help with photographs but a fair number of these revolvers have the post-1909 unit marking system and so I guess were still around in WW1. And why not? Some early 19th century pattern swords also have post 1909 unit marks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 23 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2019 I'm sorry Julian, I have no idea what you mean by having post 1909 unit marking system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 23 April , 2019 Share Posted 23 April , 2019 OK Steve, sorry for not being clear. All the German states had their own unit marking systems before they were united in 1871. It does not seem to be known when the first system for a unified Germany was issued, but there is a Bavarian document of 1872 which - I think - copies then then current Prussian system. Then we have: 1877 for Prussia, etc., with Bavarian version in 1882; 1890 for Prussia, etc., with Bavarian version in 1891; 1897 for Prussia, etc., with Bavarian version in 1898; 1900 for Prussia, etc., with Bavarian version in 1901; 1909, for Prussia, etc., with Bavarian version in 1910. They basically repeat each other with some slight but often important changes. E.g., R.R, in 1877 meant a reserve infantry regiment, but by 1909 it meant a recruiting depot. Bavaria was always 'slow of the mark' in issuing their version of the regulations to maintain an image of independence(!), but it also had some units not represented in the Prussian and other armies, e.g., Chevaulegers. So, the style of the mark - depending on what it is for - can sometimes indicate the earliest date the weapon was issued from the armoury. Hope that helps! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 23 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2019 Sounds wonderfully frustrating to puzzle together for us collectors, I just feel underarms in knowledge. What type of unit was a Chevauleger. I know a Ulan was like a lance/Calvery type unit, but Chevauleger ? Sounds like horse unit to me?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 23 April , 2019 Share Posted 23 April , 2019 1 hour ago, Steve1871 said: Sounds wonderfully frustrating to puzzle together for us collectors, I just feel underarms in knowledge. What type of unit was a Chevauleger. I know a Ulan was like a lance/Calvery type unit, but Chevauleger ? Sounds like horse unit to me?!? It is a puzzle and difficult to hold all the details in my head at my age...!!! Chevaulegers were indeed cavalry units! Light cavalry with lances, if I remember correctly, and originally formed in the Napoleonic period, and so they kept their name for historical reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new3.2 Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 my great-great uncle was a member of the 2nd Bavarian Chevauleger out of Bamburg. He participated in 1870-1871 war, and then came to Chicago where, as an old man he was still known as a great horse man. I have a c-d-v photo of him in uniform. To far off the subject? new3.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 Not at all as I think they kept the same uniform in WW1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new3.2 Posted 24 April , 2019 Share Posted 24 April , 2019 So if the keepers of the post do not mind I will contact Chris, who in the past has always posted images for this old dinosaur, to see if he can help again. This may take several days. new3.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 April , 2019 Share Posted 25 April , 2019 (edited) On 24/04/2019 at 17:29, new3.2 said: So if the keepers of the post do not mind I will contact Chris, who in the past has always posted images for this old dinosaur, to see if he can help again. This may take several days. new3.2 Send it on! I can post it ! Chris Edit - photo added below Edited 29 April , 2019 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new3.2 Posted 30 April , 2019 Share Posted 30 April , 2019 Thank you Chris! The 2nd Bavarian Regiment Cheavauleger is George Michael Schwarz . According to military paintings in "Bayerisches Militar" by Jurgen Kraus 1988, the uniform is very dark blue or black, with red bib front and red stripe along trouser seams. The brass plate on the headgear on the table has a large script L for King Ludwig I. It is a Raupen helmet, but I do not know what that means. Photo taken in Bamberg, which I also think was the regiments base. new3.2 Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 May , 2019 Share Posted 1 May , 2019 On 30/04/2019 at 04:48, new3.2 said: ... It is a Raupen helmet, but I do not know what that means. Well, a raupen is a caterpillar, and the term refers to the appearance of the plume on the the helmet crest. They became fashionable in the Napoleonic period among many European armies, and a nice one of the same type with a Ludwig cypher appears in an auction catalogue at: https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/bayern-67EB4A4644 (now sold, and no connection to the firm!). That one has a holder for a side plume, the one in the photograph has the side plume in place. Have a look also at: https://www.treasurebunker.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2138-bavarian-helmet-m1868-raupenhelm/ According to German Wiki - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raupenhelm - they went out of fashion in Bavaria after the death of Ludwig II, when they were replaced by the pickelhaube - this was to conform to Prussian regulations on army and cavalry dress according to rticle 23 of the German Constitution of 1871 or so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new3.2 Posted 2 May , 2019 Share Posted 2 May , 2019 Thank you trajan, I learned more about the photo. He came to the US after the 1870 war and at some point brought his sister to Chicago to marry a Prussian friend of his. She is my great grandmother. George's family has a very ornately carved stand, that his family believes was presented to him by Bavarian royalty. new3.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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