Trinnette Taylor, another one lost to me.

[Jim Strawbridge]

I have been trying to research Trinnette Taylor without much success. She is CWGC commemorated and her mother, going by the same name, lived at 3 Golders Green Road, Hendon. She was a WRNS member who died in 1918, aged 28. I cannot find a birth or death registered for her on BMD. The 1851 census has a Trinnette Clive (b. 1828 in Westerham, Kent) who, I think married a John Taylor in Chelsea in 1881. But if the same woman she would have been far past child-bearing age to have had Trinnette. There is a Trinette (stet) Taylor who married either Edward John Lumbrey or James McGuigan in 1887 in Woolwich. I favour the second for he was an Irish soldier and Trinnette may have come from there and hence not on BMD. But to be her daughter my Trinnette Taylor would have been a McGuigan rather than Taylor. Any ideas?

[seaJane]

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7435592 has her as Trinette on the Discovery catalogue but mistranscribed from Trinnette on the actual card: London Division WRNS, enrolled 21 Oct 1918

 

FreeBMD has the following, and searching with the names reversed indicates that Mr Butt's first name was Henry, initial D.

 

Not found a FreeBMD birth for Trin[n]ette Butt yet

Marriages Dec 1914   (>99%)
Butt	Trinnette	Taylor	Greenwich	1d	2189

[seaJane]

 

(Incidentally, reversing the names on FreeBMD also indicates that James McGuigan was the husband in the 1887 marriage you found.)

[corisande]

7 hours ago, Jim Strawbridge said:

I favour the second for he was an Irish soldier and Trinnette may have come from there and hence not on BMD.

 

There is only one Trinette or Trinnette on Irish BMB, and that is not her. It is Trinette Kubler born 1880 and married in Ireland in 1900

[corisande]

4 hours ago, seaJane said:

FreeBMD has the following, and searching with the names reversed indicates that Mr Butt's first name was Henry, initial D.

 

 

Their marriage cert is on Ancestry - click

 

It shows her father was William McClure Butt, gentleman. And she was living at New Cross, Greenwich at that time

 

And says she was 22 at the date of her marriage,  5 Dec 1914.

 

She was a spinster at that date

 

 

[corisande]

At this stage I get confused. There is in 1939 Register a Trinette Taylor, widow, living in Fulham, and born 31 Dec 1892 - see on Ancestry

 

There is also an Ancestry Tree - click for tree - that gives the above marriage to Taylor, and gives her death as 21 Apr 1966 in England. It also gives a child born 1920. Both implying that this lady did not die in 1918

[Jim Strawbridge]

17 minutes ago, corisande said:

There is also an Ancestry Tree - click for tree - that gives the above marriage to Taylor, and gives her death as 21 Apr 1966 in England. It also gives a child born 1920. Both implying that this lady did not die in 1918

 

Or that she was a different Trinnette Taylor. As her mother was a Trinnette Taylor, too, it seems that mine would have been single.

Edited 20 April , 2019 by Jim Strawbridge

[corisande]

And the birth of the above is registered as

 

Name:	Trinnett Sophia McCluer-butt
Registration Year:	1892
Registration Quarter:	Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district:	Camberwell

 

Basically it all this through from birth to marriage with the McCluer being used

 

So either she survived the war and CWGC is wrong, or it is a different Trinnette Taylor who died in 1918

 

Perhaps the clue is in CWGC saysin her mother was Trinnette Taylor of Golders Green. This implies that Taylor was the maiden name of the girl who died, and as far as I can ascertain the girl who married had a mother Charlotte

 

 

[Jim Strawbridge]

Golders Green Road, Hendon rather than Golders Green.

[seaJane]

Arrrgh. 

[PRC]

The preview of her service record available on the National Archive shows that she did not take up her duties due to illness and was discharged with no pay.

There is a note beside her date of enrolment - "Immobile".

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7435592

 

To add to the confusion there is only one death on FreeBMD of a "Trinnette" in England & Wales in Q4 1918 / Q1 1919 and thats a 23 year old Trinnette Atkins who died in the Colchester District in Q4 of 1918. There are no "Trinette's". Obviously she could have died elsewhere but then that comes back to what is meant by "Immobile". The similarly between 23 & 28 when it comes to the potential for typos is a well trodden path.

 

There is no obvious probate for either a Trinnette Taylor or Trinnette Atkins in the period 1918-1922. The 15 year old Trinnette Atkins, a Dressmaker is on the 1911 Census living at Parkeston, Essex, where she was born. However the mothers' name is Emily, maiden name Claxton,so not even a question of reverting to a mothers' maiden name.

 

There is no obvious T Taylor in the Golders Green area on the 1911 census.

 

So one step forward and one step back and I've run out of time so I'll pass the baton on :-)

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

Edited 20 April , 2019 by PRC
Typo

[corisande]

It always repays looking at the indexing of this forum

 

Terry Denham added this in click . And Adrian Wright  was the volunteer working on it

[corisande]

I PMed Terry, and he replied to say that Jim has all the info that went into the submission to CWGC

 

So it is very mysterious

 

1. There appears to be no death cert/registration  for her in 1918 as Trinnette Taylor. If she died within a week of trying to enlist, and was meant to be with London Division of WRNS, then the likelihood is that she died in London, and there should be a DC. You can filter FreeBMD to get Taylors aged 28 died in that quarter of 1918, but nothing jumps out

 

2. Neither she nor her mother can be found in 1911 census nor in earlier censuses

 

3. There is a possibility that she changed her name. Trinnette/Trinette appears to be Dutch or Belgium . The records for births in those countries are not good when researching from here, but I cannot find a likely birth

     At a time when the Battenbergs and the Saxe Coburg Gothas were changing to Mountbatten and Windsor, a family with a Germanic sounding surname may have opted to change it. But I cannot see any official announcements of such a change

 

The ironic thing here is that "Trinnette" should make research easy because of its rarity.

 

 

[seaJane]

Of course FreeBMD is not at 100% coverage yet... It occurs to me to wonder whether she has accidentally been recorded as Toinette (short for Antoinette) somewhere.

[DavidOwen]

Just another thought.

Apparently Trin(n)ette derives from the Greek Catherine (Katherine) or Scandanavian Trina....

[PRC]

Mrs C tells me it used to be a popular French name, so a refugee from Belgium with a more Germanic sounding Flemish name might choose to anglicize it with it's French equivalent - hence no birth or census record.

 

If she was born here in England and Wales and was 28 when she enlisted on the 21st October 1918, then assuming she gave correct information that would place her birth between the 22nd October 1889 and the 21st October 1890. To add to the name variations, there is a Trenette Vellis Morse whose birth was registered with the Civil Authorities in the Edmonton District in Q3 1890, but there is a death of a "Trennette Vellys Morse", aged 6, was recorded in the same District in Q3 of 1896. Other than that there is a Trinetta Priscilla Morse, mothers' maiden name Milner, birth registered in the York District in Q2 of 1890. She, along with sister Maude, (9) and brother Reginald, (6), all born York, were recorded as visitors in the household of a Charles & Hannah Burrows on the 1901 Census. She apparently married in India on the 24th June 1908 to a Wentworth Howard Willis. Her father Thomas, a Police Sergeant in 1901, was born Calcutta  and married a Mary Milner.

Source: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGV6-T64

Looks like another dead end.

 

Of couse one of the reasons why someone might change their name and turn up with no back story during this period is fleeing domestic violence. However presumably the authorities were satisfied if they were going to let her work in Naval Signals and therefore she produced some kind of bona fides as to identity.

 

Lastly, in case it helps anyone I took a look at the 1911 Census to see if I could track down then occupants of 3, Golders Green Road, Hendon, (the address given for her next of kin), in case that suggested anything. As far as I can see the low numbers on the road formed "Golders Green Parade", which judging from the occupations of some of the occupants might well have been a row of shops. I started in the low 20's and found a smattering of Germans & Austrians, possibly supporting the hypothesis floated above. There is a gap below 10 and then comes 3a, and 3b, both recorded as flats, and neither occupants looking a potential match for Trinnette Taylor or her mother. There is no return for Number 3.

 

Both mother & daughter would potentially be of an age where they might have become entitled to the vote in 1918. If Ancestry or FMP have the relevant electoral registers it might be worthwhile checking the names of the occupants of number 3 and the flats. - if nothing else it might confirm the mother also had the same first name.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[corisande]

Does not help. but it seems J. Sainsbury had a shop there. Hendon & Finchley Times in Nov 1918

 

 

[CGM]

Does the D.D. on her record definitely stand for Date of Death? Could it be the date she was finally discharged?

Just a thought.

Edited 20 April , 2019 by CGM

[seaJane]

RN abbreviation Discharged Dead. Don't know if it always matches date of death or not. @horatio2 would know.

[CGM]

Just wondering if she didn't actually die,

[Jim Strawbridge]

I, too, did the 1911 census search for the address without success. Another thing that has puzzled me is that the WRNS shows that she was a Senior Writer yet she seems to have only just joined the WRNS. The "rank" would suggest a longer service than that.

[familyhistoryman]

There is an  entry on the   CWGC that has Trinnette the daughter of Mrs Trinnette Taylor which would suggest that Mr Taylor had already died . I cannot find the death for the  mother. This would be useful as it could help to find the family on a census.

[ajsmith]

Have looked at her WRNS enrolment form and she gives her mother's name as Mrs Butt at the same Golders Green Road address. She says she is living in New Cross which was the area she and her husband were living when they married in 1914.  For some reason she added a year or so to her age, she was actually born 31st Dec 1891 in Camberwell. I've come to the conclusion that she didn't die in 1918 but lived (hopefully happily) until 1966. I am happy to be debunked though.

[ajsmith]

On 20/04/2019 at 10:47, PRC said:

There is a note beside her date of enrolment - "Immobile".

Immobile means she couldn't be posted far from her home, presumably because of her responsibilities as a mother.

 

[corisande]

25 minutes ago, ajsmith said:

Have looked at her WRNS enrolment form and she gives her mother's name as Mrs Butt at the same Golders Green Road address. She says she is living in New Cross which was the area she and her husband were living when they married in 1914.  For some reason she added a year or so to her age, she was actually born 31st Dec 1891 in Camberwell. I've come to the conclusion that she didn't die in 1918 but lived (hopefully happily) until 1966. I am happy to be debunked though.

 

Can you post the enlistment form or give a link to it

 

I have struggled from the start to understand if there were two Trinnette Taylors or only one who survived.

 

The recent In From The Cold project got her included on the Brookwood Memorial - click for CWGC entry

 

Now this was only added a couple of years ago to the memorial, so that could be wrong. But as I understand it, the CWGC demand a high standard of proof to show that the person was a serving soldier, and require things like service records, death certs, etc. That entry gave her next of kin as her mother Trinnette Taylor. . This was why I asked in post 12 above about the work that IFTC produced for CWGC, Terry Denham replied that Jim has all that info

 

I said in post 13 above that there could be 1 or 2 people here, but that if her mother was Trinnette Taylor, then she was unmarried and could not have the mother Charlotte Butt

 

Have CWGC made a ghastly mistake in accepting her , if she in fact survived ? Or are we missing some of the most important evidence?

 

This is the first time I have seen her enlistment form being available, and if it lists her mother as Mrs Butt of Golders Green Rd, then it is fairly conclusive evidence (along with the various BMD and marriage and census info on this thread) that she survived the war