How often did this occur?

[Perth Digger]

S R P Walter served in France with 2nd Queen's RWS and in January 1916 was seconded to 22 Brigade MGC. On 16 June 1916, apparently before any training, he reported for duty with 25 Squadron in the field. On 23 June 1916, as an observer in a Fb 2 piloted by 2nd Lt JJ Lynch on an artillery reconnaissance patrol, he was wounded during a fight. It was not until after he had recovered that he went for initial training to No 2 Training Centre at Brasenose College Oxford (October 1916).

 

Was it common practice for observers to be involved in missions before they had had any training at this point of the war? Walter was presumably a trained machine-gunner and had at least one necessary quality.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[MikeMeech]

53 minutes ago, Perth Digger said:

S R P Walter served in France with 2nd Queen's RWS and in January 1916 was seconded to 22 Brigade MGC. On 16 June 1916, apparently before any training, he reported for duty with 25 Squadron in the field. On 23 June 1916, as an observer in a Fb 2 piloted by 2nd Lt JJ Lynch on an artillery reconnaissance patrol, he was wounded during a fight. It was not until after he had recovered that he went for initial training to No 2 Training Centre at Brasenose College Oxford (October 1916).

 

Was it common practice for observers to be involved in missions before they had had any training at this point of the war? Walter was presumably a trained machine-gunner and had at least one necessary quality.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

Hi

 

Chapter 5 in Jefford's 'Observers and Navigators' (2nd edition, 2001) gives details how observer training was changing both in the home base training system and on squadrons in France during this period.  Wayne Ralph's book 'Barker VC', Chapter 3, has mention of William Barker's training on No. 9 Squadron, when he transferred to the RFC as an observer (after being a machine gunner in the CEF).  Page 28 states:

 

"Will had a few days of hangar instruction prior to getting airborne on his first flight.  His gunnery skills were well developed, but he knew nothing about wireless telegraphy.  He had a small pocket camera for taking personal photos (in violation of regulations), but he had no training on the large "C" model aerial camera, the type that used 4" by 5" glass-plate negatives."

 

He first flew on 6th March, 1916, this was non-operational, and was part of his 'training', also he would have been on probation to see if he could cope with the job for a while learning how to do the various jobs of a Corps squadron observer.

 

During 1916 the home base trained observer were becoming much better trained before active service than the squadron trained observer in France and gradually replaced the latter system.

 

Mike

 

 

[Perth Digger]

Hi Mike

Thank you for this very useful information. So it was not unusual. Still seems a bit amateur to me, though, and risky. 

 

Mike

[MikeMeech]

2 hours ago, Perth Digger said:

Hi Mike

Thank you for this very useful information. So it was not unusual. Still seems a bit amateur to me, though, and risky. 

 

Mike

Hi

 

I recommend Jefford's book as it goes through the details and associated problems of training.  The expanding RFC (alongside the expanding BEF ground forces) imposed difficulties on training including the provision of 'experienced' instructors.  However, it was in 1916 that a lot of changes were being made, by July many of the observers were being trained at 'home', by August 1916 it was decided all would be sent to Reading or Oxford.  The first observer dedicated syllabus was laid down in AO 141 dated 1 June 1916 (according to Jefford), this lasted four-weeks for a total of 140 hours training.  This consisted of: Aero-engines (rotary & stationary) - 15 hrs.  Instruments - 3.  Artillery Observation - 15.  Troop Formations - 6.  Map-reading and reconnaissance - 6.  The Lewis Gun - 12.  Bombs and bombing - 6.  Photography - 6.  Wireless - 3.  Signalling (mostly Morse practice) - 56.  Theory of flight - 3.  Types of aeroplanes and aerial fighting - 3.  Meteorology and astronomy - 3.  Military Law - 3.  Changes continued to be made in the training system throughout the war.

 

Mike

[Perth Digger]

As you say, Mike, these changes coincided with the changes being made in the army as a whole in 1916: the 'learning curve' idea being put into practice. 

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[MikeMeech]

21 hours ago, Perth Digger said:

As you say, Mike, these changes coincided with the changes being made in the army as a whole in 1916: the 'learning curve' idea being put into practice. 

 

Thanks

 

Mike

Hi

 

I am going through some work I have done on French Air Service 'Contact Patrols' (which is in need of revision) and I thought I should mention a comment from Captain A A Walser, RFC, of No. 4 Sqn. who attended a course undertaken by the French at Beauvais from 15 to 30 December 1916 which discussed the lessons of 1916.  Walser not only attended but gave a lecture on what the RFC had been doing.  In his report he mentions the observer training undertaken by the French, stating that:

 

"Original training - this is very scanty and an Observer has to pick up wireless, machine gunnery and knowledge of observation, as best as he can."

 

It appears from this that French training for its observers was not much different from the British at this time, although Walser considered the initial French training as 'inferior' to the RFC's in this respect.

 

Mike

[Perth Digger]

That's interesting, Mike, thanks for sharing. Some historians believe that a good deal of the lessons of 1916 for both infantry and artillery were learnt from the French initially. That there was, or may have been, cross-fertilisation taking place between the allies is a good thing.

 

Mike

[Guest]

mAte,

 

The AFC also had this during 1916/17, where men & officers were attached to 1 Sqn (67 Sqn) AFC for training, then if OK then sent to SMA for Obsver course.

 

A number were rejected because they found they didn't like to fly, so saved a place at the SMA which could have been used by someone who needed it.

 

Cheers

S.B

[Perth Digger]

Thanks, Steve.

Mike