Preserved Trenches

[kirkyboy]

Hi guys,

I was wondering why there are more preserved trenches in Belgium compared to the Somme?

The only ones on the Somme i can thinck of is in Serre and Newfoundland Park.

In Belgium:

Hill 60, Hill 62, Croonart ect

Thanks

Dan

[CROONAERT]

The only ones on the Somme i can thinck of is in Serre and Newfoundland Park.

...and Guedecourt.

Technically, the trenches at Croonaert Wood and Hill 62 and Hooge, etc (very difficult to make out any trenches at all at Hill 60!) are actually renovated and re-dug rather than preserved. This gets done on a temporary basis every once in a while on the Somme too. They tend to get filled in more here, though.

Dave.

[egbert]

I have a personal (family) interest in Gueudecourt trenches. Dave would you please contact me off forum or here about either trenchmap with preserved Gueudecourt trenches pointed out or reference to a modern map? I did not find any trench remnants when I visited G. Did I miss a vital story?

[CROONAERT]

. Did I miss a vital story?

Nothing major, Egbert.

Have responded to your PM.

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

Have responded to your PM.

...and emailed a couple of map extracts...

[egbert]

thanks Dave; always a pleasure to study your maps!

[Guest Simon Bull]

I have to confess to total ignorance about the trenches at Gueudecourt. Could someone in the know please tell me more?

[Paul Reed]

Simon - it is just one small section of trench beneath the Caribou memorial, located on the high ground beyond Guedecourt. I doubt if it is 50 yards long.

[healdav]

I can never understand why you bother with all these genuine imitation trenches. Come over to the St. Mihiel salient/ Argonne. Those haven't bene touched. Right down to the UXB everywhere; not to mention barbed wire entanglements.

[paul guthrie]

They are at Verdun too, try Pepper Hill for one. And in the Vosges and near Asiago all sorts of trenches in stone, Caporetto too, all real.

[Paul Reed]

I can never understand why you bother with all these genuine imitation trenches. Come over to the St. Mihiel salient/ Argonne. Those haven't bene touched. Right down to the UXB everywhere; not to mention barbed wire entanglements.

There are also such places on the Somme, if you care to look.

And the trench at Guedecourt isn't 'imitation' - it is a small section of grassed over trench from 1916, still quite deep, in the confines of the Newfoundland Memorial site. It matches up with trench maps of the period.

[ArmyOfficer]

There are also such places on the Somme, if you care to look.

i think there are actually more on the Somme than at Ypres due to the topography; you could dig deep on the uplands of the Somme while at Ypres in many areas you couldn't dig (and still can't) down more than three feet before hitting the water table. I know many memoires of the units around Ploegsteert mention having occupied positions that were more breastworks than trenches.

I love walking Ypres but still think there are more "remnants" of the war in the Somme than in Ypres. As an example, look at the areas from Gallipoli to the Schuler Galleries in Ypres; or around Beck and Berry Houses. Some of the most contested areas in the British zone of the Western Front and today barely a visible trace remains (aside from the shrapnel balls and fuses). Contrast that with the area around Fricourt (Tambour), or the road running due south from Montauban, or even the area around Point 110. Areas which saw (arguably) less prolonged combat but which still today retain many more marks of the Great War than most areas around Ypres.

I'm with Mr. Reed, I've found many, many places on the Somme that are all in all untouched since the 1920s. if you know terrain and have a good map and guide book these places aren't hard to find.

[Guest Simon Bull]

Thanks Paul

[Chris Noble]

R.E. Guedecourt.

Can anybody provide details of the trench through the memorial overlaid onto modern maps if possible?

Al.

Any details on access to the site at Otterburn? Be worthy of an investigation. I know you operate regular in the area as Ordnance Disposal so any chance, M.O.D. permitting?

Regards, Chris.

[CROONAERT]

Seeing as we're talking about trench remnants still visible anywhere, what about Vimy? or the "Tranchee du Soif" not too far from St.Mihiel ? The Champagne region has quite a few I can think of too.

As has been mentioned, Verdun and the Argonne are riddled with them (though reforestation has destroyed quite a lot). Some are even shown on the 1:25,000 IGN maps of the area. The Argonne is a place full of surprises in those forests.

One of the best (and most obvious) trench "systems" I've ever come across is the middle of a field near Montsec. No trees to obscure it and the grass kept short by cattle. It's also a fair distance from any road and can be seen from the Luxembourg City - Paris train (right hand window if you face the front as you go towards Paris) with the Butte in the background.

Remnants can be found ,to some degree, in most sectors on the Western Front. you just have to know where to look. Woods are a good place to start.

Dave.