Owen Paul Posted 14 April , 2019 Share Posted 14 April , 2019 Looking for any assistance in the research of Edward Percy Card. Regiment 7th Battalion The Buffs East Kent Regiment Service Number 11378 Date of Death 08:30 5/2/1917 Buried in Cemetry Notre At Cambrai No1075 Grave Number 255 From UK Army Register Of Soldiers Effects found he was a POW in Wahn Germany When we visited his grave we discovered that 2 other Privates from his Regiment are also buried in the same cemetery. Frank Cooper G/1867 and Richard Roofe G/18866. They also died 5/2/17 and were also POW's in Wahn Germany. Edward Percy Death Certificate says "Admitted in a dying condition" and I believe there was a hospital in Cambrai at the timeI find it hard to believe that all three died at the same time and on the same day. Were they attempting and escape?? Question how can I find when they were interned in the Wahn Camp and how they got from Wahn Germany to Cambrai and what happened to them there? I look forward to any assistance you may be able to offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 14 April , 2019 Share Posted 14 April , 2019 (edited) Welcome to the Forum. He is in the ICRC archives here Scroll down from Carcy.. There are several PA numbers to look at (hover over a card and insert numbers in the PA box) Mike Edited 14 April , 2019 by Langdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Paul Posted 15 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2019 Langdon Thanks very much for your help in my research have frond the information very useful. However do you know where I can get translation for the headings of the various documents as my German is not up to scratch and Google takes a long time. Also research shows that the 7th Battalion were involved in the Battle of Ancre heights and the Battle on Ancre between 1/10/17 and 18/11/17 which would tie in with the date of 16/11/17 on PA9539 which also shows Frank Cooper and Richard Roffe. Using Google for Grandecourt does not help either. Any ideas? Thanks Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 15 April , 2019 Share Posted 15 April , 2019 This attachment is hidden somewhere on the ICRC website : BillyH. POW - Key to Abbreviations etc.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith Posted 15 April , 2019 Share Posted 15 April , 2019 Owen Grandcourt is here http://tinyurl.com/y2uujthz, It's certainly a mysterious case it seems an incredible coincidence that three men apparently captured on the same day should die on the same day almost three months later. If they had died a day or two after capture it would be more credible but after such a time not a coincidence methinks. I could find no cause of death for any of them 'admitted in a dying condition' hardly qualifies as a cause. though it's worth remembering that these are translations of the original German documents so maybe something got lost in that process. One thing I could not see any reference to the camp at Wahn on the soldier's effects record. maybe I need new glasses. The only references I could find to any of them being in Germany is the letter apparently sent on the 26/11/16 by Private Card indicating that he is a prisoner In Germany and some documents originate from there. Also unusual and I have looked at a lot of these POW documents is that there is no reference to their condition on capture, it usually says vervundet (wounded) or unvervundet (unwounded) but I could find nothing. Will keep looking Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 15 April , 2019 Share Posted 15 April , 2019 You have an error, I think, in the name of one of the other men who died. I think he was "Richard Daniel Roffe" and NOT "Roofe" It is important, as I was trying to see if anything existed on the other two men - and Frank Cooper is difficult When I eventually found he was "Roffe" I still could not find anything on his death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Paul Posted 15 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2019 Corisande Apologise should have been Richard Roffe G/18866 7th Battalion The Buffs Frank Cooper G/18867 7th Battalion The Buffs. All three appear on ICRC Site on PA 16863. Looking at the info given by Langdon AJSmith Thanks for trying to clear things up. I have since found out that the 7th Battalion The Buffs were involved in the Battle of Ancre Heights and the battle of Ancre between 1/10/16 and 18/11/17. Acre is 50 km from Cambrai whereas Grandecourt is 434 km from Cambrai. Maybe both Grandecourt and Wahn were just recording Camps for Prisoners. Seems more likely they would have been taken from Ancre to Cambrai. Anyone any ideas where I could find any information on Lazaarette 5 in Cambrai as I think this was the hospital they were taken to and subsequently died in Thks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 15 April , 2019 Admin Share Posted 15 April , 2019 I shall pay my respects for you later this week. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 15 April , 2019 Share Posted 15 April , 2019 Sorry can't help you with the German. The 7th Buffs war diary shows they were involved in the attack on Regina Trench at the end of the Battle of the Ancre (and indeed of the whole Somme Offensive) - on 18th November 1916, with 124 OR's missing. This doesn't match the 16/11/16 date in the POW records but the battalion were standing by for the attack on that date.. If you have (or can gain) access to Ancestry here are the entries in the diary, including an Appendix for the operations on the 18th and 19th November. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith Posted 15 April , 2019 Share Posted 15 April , 2019 3 minutes ago, Langdon said: This doesn't match the 16/11/16 date in the POW records They were captured on the eighteenth which matches the action at Regina Trench, the companies of the men captured also match those given in War Diary appendix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Posted 15 April , 2019 Share Posted 15 April , 2019 3 minutes ago, ajsmith said: They were captured on the eighteenth which matches the action at Regina Trench, the companies of the men captured also match those given in War Diary appendix. Thanks, I was just pointing out that the POW records didn't match the date of the action Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 18 April , 2019 Admin Share Posted 18 April , 2019 Dear Owen, I said hello to Edward for you earlier. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Paul Posted 19 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 19 April , 2019 Michelle Thanks for that. Did you see the other 2 graves as well? If you are still there try and find the Hotel we stayed at Hotel Beatus if the owner is still the same one very knowledgeable on Cambria during WW1. Emailed him recently but not had a reply yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 22 April , 2019 Admin Share Posted 22 April , 2019 Yes we visited all the graves. A really interesting plot. We're staying in a self catering flat near the centre of town. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Paul Posted 23 April , 2019 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2019 Michelle Just had email back from Phillippe Dear Owen, Dear Irene, This is a pleasure to read from you. The history of your Grandfather Edward Percy Card is really interesting. It is a good point to know the lazarett’s number. There were many hospitals in Cambrai and at the moment I am not able to tell you which one is the 5. There is a good book “ Wounded and a prisoner of war” written by Major M. V.. Hay . He was captured next to Cambrai during the Mons retreat and then send to one of the Cambrai lazarett. I am sure you will trace him. No one record of the ww1 hospitals of Cambrai were kept here. I think it will be a very difficult mission to locate them. The only possible issue for my feeling will be Switzerland with the red cross archives without any certitude that something will be there. Not sure if you are still out there but it was good of him to reply after such a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Card Posted 18 February , 2023 Share Posted 18 February , 2023 Hi, my name is Phil Card and i am a distant relative of Edward Percy. I just returned from a trip to Belgium and northern France and managed to find Percy's headstone in Cambrai and was able to pay my respects. I have quite a lot of information about the Card family (going back to 1555) please email me on [email address removed by moderator]if you have/need any info we can exchange. Many thanks Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 18 February , 2023 Admin Share Posted 18 February , 2023 Welcome to the forum. @Owen Paul hasn’t visited the forum since 2019. With any luck, my tag will alert him to your post. I’ve also removed your email address from your post. Never a good idea to put personal information on a public forum. Spammers do visit and can gather information like that. Members can use private messages to contact other members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Paul Posted 18 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2023 Michelle Young Thanks for letting me know about the post from Phil Card most interesting and would possibly like to contact him/her but am not aware on how to send private message could you help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 18 February , 2023 Admin Share Posted 18 February , 2023 Hi Owen, Click on his name, which takes you to his profile. Then click on the envelope icon. This opens up a message box. Type your text, then send. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Paul Posted 18 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2023 Thanks Michelle for your help will give it a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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