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Royal Marine Artillery

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battle of loos

Good evening,

 

I would like to know what  "unit " the Royal Marine Artillery belongs to.
was she part of the 63rd Naval Division or is she an indentant?

 

Thank you in advance for your answers.

 

Kind regards

 

Michel

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ianjonesncl

Independent.

 

The Divisional Artillery of the 63rd Naval Division was the 2nd line Territorial Force units of the Northumbrian Divisional Artillery.

 

 

 

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seaJane

The Royal Marine Artillery (RMA) and the Royal Marine Light Infantry (RMLI) were independent bodies, although I believe (perhaps wrongly) that reserves from both were included when the 63rd (Royal Naval) Division was formed.

 

RMA and RMLI merged in 1923 to form the single Royal Marine Corps, which still exists.

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battle of loos

Good evening,

 

Thank you for the reply. :thumbsup:

 

the Royal Marine artillery is a single brigade or a single artillery regiment attached to an artillery brigade?

 

Kind regards

 

Michel

 

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battle of loos

a big thank you for this precision. :thumbsup:

 

I can't figure out if the Royal Marine artillery participated in the battle of Arras in 1917.


the 63rd Division yes no problem.

 

Michel

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Keith_history_buff

Good evening,

Are you researching an individual? It would be useful to know the context of your query.

Unlike in France, a regiment could have many infantry battalions, all of these battalions would be in a large variety of Corps, Divisions and Brigades. Thus, the personnel of the Royal Marine Artillery were in a large number of locations, in different units. (They also served on ships, too.)

Although they were part of the Royal Navy, the Royal Marine Artillery had ranks derived from their artillery counterparts in the Army.

Thanks, Keith

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seaJane
9 minutes ago, battle of loos said:

 

I can't figure out if the Royal Marine artillery participated in the battle of Arras in 1917.

Not as a separate entity, to the best of my knowledge.

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battle of loos

Thank you for this additional information.


I often report the battalion (British Army) to the Regiment (French army).
Professional deformation

 

this post is in connection with the battle of Arras of 1917 and the unitated ones who participated.

 

michel

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horatio2
19 minutes ago, battle of loos said:

I can't figure out if the Royal Marine artillery participated in the battle of Arras in 1917.

The Howitzer Brigade RMA brought its 15-inch howitzers into action for every Phase of the Arras Offensive, from the Battle of Vimy Ridge 9-14 April 1917 to the Battle of Hill 70 15-25 August 1917.  https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/battles/battles-of-the-western-front-in-france-and-flanders/the-arras-offensive-1917-battle-of-arras/

They were not part of the Royal Naval Division.

Edited by horatio2

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Keith_history_buff

There is something peculiar among the IWM Collections. It suggests the presence of the RMA at Arras.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=&pageSize=15&style=list&filters[periodString][First World War]=on&filters[agentString][Royal Navy%2C Royal Marine Artillery]=on&page=1

The following does seem to suggest that individual howitzers were deployed on the Western Front, each with a crew of 60 men.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-royal-artillery-in-the-first-world-war/the-batteries-of-the-royal-marine-artillery/

 

Could it be that Bootneck gunners from a howitzer were photographed with the German guns?
 

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Ron Clifton

The Royal Marine Artillery operated ten 15-inch howitzers in France and Belgium, and in 1918 they also operated some 12-inch road-mounted howitzers. It is very likely that some of the 15-inch were used in support of the Battle of Arras in April 1917: there were four of them under Third Army and a further three under First Army at that time.

 

Edit: horatio2 beat me to it!

 

Ron

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seaJane

I was wrong! (not unknown)

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Maureene

The following book is available online. I can see it full view, but I understand some may not be able to see it.

 

Britain's Sea Soldiers. A Record of the Royal Marines during the War 1914-1919. Compiled by General Sir H. E. Blumberg, Royal Marines 1927. Hathi Trust Digital Library. Includes chapters on France, and chapters on the Royal Marine Artillery.

 

Cheers

Maureen

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battle of loos
11 hours ago, horatio2 said:

The Howitzer Brigade RMA brought its 15-inch howitzers into action for every Phase of the Arras Offensive, from the Battle of Vimy Ridge 9-14 April 1917 to the Battle of Hill 70 15-25 August 1917.  https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/battles/battles-of-the-western-front-in-france-and-flanders/the-arras-offensive-1917-battle-of-arras/

They were not part of the Royal Naval Division. 

good Morning,

Thank you for the information.

I had consulted the page:
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/battles/battles-of-the-western-front-in-france-and-flanders/the-arras-offensive-1917-battle-of-arras/

 

following your reply, I conclude that the howitzer Brigade RMA followed the Canadian Corps (Vimy and Hill 70).


Michel

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horatio2
32 minutes ago, battle of loos said:

I conclude that the howitzer Brigade RMA followed the Canadian Corps (Vimy and Hill 70).

Not quite so simple.

Guns Nos.1, 11 and 12 supported the Battle of Vimy. At the same time guns Nos.3, 4, 6 and 10 were supporting the 1st Battle of the Scarpe. No.1 gun alone supported the Canadians at Hill 70. In other words, the individual guns of the RMA Howitzer Brigade were allocated piecemeal as operations demanded. They did not "follow the Canadian Corps."

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battle of loos
10 hours ago, Maureene said:

The following book is available online. I can see it full view, but I understand some may not be able to see it.

 

Britain's Sea Soldiers. A Record of the Royal Marines during the War 1914-1919. Compiled by General Sir H. E. Blumberg, Royal Marines 1927. Hathi Trust Digital Library. Includes chapters on France, and chapters on the Royal Marine Artillery.

  

Cheers

Maureen

good Morning,

 

Thanks for the link.

 

everything is summarized there.

It's wonderful.

 

Michel

 

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Keith_history_buff
13 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

Are you researching an individual? It would be useful to know the context of your query.

Unlike in France, a regiment could have many infantry battalions, all of these battalions would be in a large variety of Corps, Divisions and Brigades. Thus, the personnel of the Royal Marine Artillery were in a large number of locations, in different units. (They also served on ships, too.)

Although they were part of the Royal Navy, the Royal Marine Artillery had ranks derived from their artillery counterparts in the Army.

 

I was very hasty in replying, and the <<mots justes>> were not forthcoming.

As I understand the organisation of the French Army, and the American Army for that matter, an infantry regiment comprises four battalions. The regiment will go to war, and will deploy in the same sector.

I have similarly seen mention in the French Army of numbered Régiments d'Artillerie Lourde and Régiments d'Artillerie de Campagne. In WW1, there were numerous regiments of gunners and their officers, who sat under the umbrella of the artillery arm of the French Army. In WW1 there were three "regiments" (R.H.A., R.F.A., R.G.A.) who sat under the umbrella of the artillery arm of the British Army. Similarly, the Royal Marine Artillery was the artillery arm of the corps of Royal Marines. Over 75,000 campaign medals were awarded to the Royal Marines, but I do not know how many thousands of men of the RMA received campaign medals.

So, from a French perspective, it is better to consider the RMA as being not a <<régiment>> in the French sense, but more of a <<spécialisme de service>>

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battle of loos

good morning,

 

before any research, it is good to know the organizational structure and articulation of the army of the country in question.

in the link that Maureen sent us, at the end of the book, there is the list of recipients of different decorations (Commonwealth & foreign).

 

Michel

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Ron Clifton

Hello again, battle of loos.

 

As Keith_history_buff has pointed out, the British Army's artillery fell into three subdivisions: Royal Horse Artillery, Royal Field Artillery and Royal Garrison Artillery, although the RHA was a specialised branch akin to the RFA, and both of these worked with divisions. The basic unit was the battery, of four or six guns, and these were grouped into artillery brigades of three (RHA) or four (RFA) batteries, equipped respectively with the 13-pounder and 18-pounder gun, the last of which was similar to the French 75mm gun.

 

The RGA was also organised in batteries, but after February 1915 the single heavy battery which originally formed part of each division was withdrawn, and they and the other batteries came under Army control, though usually allocated to Corps during battles. RGA batteries, of medium and heavy guns, normally consisted of two or four guns, and later six, depending on their calibre, and were originally grouped into brigades of two, three or four batteries each. From early 1916 this arrangement was changed and they were organised into Heavy Artillery Groups (HAGs), with an average of about five batteries per group. The composition of these  groups changed over time to suit the needs of the moment, but by January 1918 the contents of the HAGs had become more permanent and they were renamed brigades RGA, with one of five standard compositions. The batteries equipped with the 60-pounder gun were called Heavy Batteries RGA, and all the rest - by far the most numerous - were called Siege Batteries RGA.

 

The Royal Marine Artillery had two basic roles: to man the heaviest guns aboard ships (usually, by tradition, X turret of a battleship or cruiser, the turret second nearest the stern), and to man some of the heaviest guns on land, principally the 15-inch howitzers which had been given to the Army by the Navy. These were organised as single-gun batteries.

 

Just to complete the picture, anti-aircraft guns were operated by the RGA, in two-gun sections of which four to six usually constituted an AA battery.

 

I hope that this helps!

 

Ron

Edited by Ron Clifton

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battle of loos
40 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said:

Hello again, battle of loos.

 

As Keith_history_buff has pointed out, the British Army's artillery fell into three subdivisions: Royal Horse Artillery, Royal Field Artillery and Royal Garrison Artillery, although the RHA was a specialised branch akin to the RFA, and both of these worked with divisions. The basic unit was the battery, of four or six guns, and these were grouped into artillery brigades of three (RHA) or four (RFA) batteries, equipped respectively with the 13-pounder and 18-pounder gun, the last of which was similar to the French 75mm gun.

 

The RGA was also organised in batteries, but after February 1915 the single heavy battery which originally formed part of each division was withdrawn, and they and the other batteries came under Army control, though usually allocated to Corps during battles. RGA batteries, of medium and heavy guns, normally consisted of two or four guns, and later six, depending on their calibre, and were originally grouped into brigades of two, three or four batteries each. From early 1916 this arrangement was changed and they were organised into Heavy Artillery Groups (HAGs), with an average of about five batteries per group. The composition of these  groups changed over time to suit the needs of the moment, but by January 1918 the contents of the HAGs had become more permanent and they were renamed brigades RGA, with one of five standard compositions. The batteries equipped with the 60-pounder gun were called Heavy Batteries RGA, and all the rest - by far the most numerous - were called Siege Batteries RGA.

 

The Royal Marine Artillery had two basic roles: to man the heaviest guns aboard ships (usually, by tradition, X turret of a battleship or cruiser, the turret second nearest the stern), and to man some of the heaviest guns on land, principally the 15-inch howitzers which had been given to the Army by the Navy. These were organised as single-gun batteries.

 

Just to complete the picture, anti-aircraft guns were operated by the RGA, in two-gun sections of which four to six usually constituted an AA battery.

 

I hope that this helps!

 

Ron 

 

good Morning,

 

Thank you Ron for these clarifications.

I will be able to better understand the writings on the different battles in Artois.

 

Michel

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horatio2
43 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said:

The Royal Marine Artillery had two basic roles: to man the heaviest guns aboard ships (usually, by tradition, X turret of a battleship or cruiser, the turret second nearest the stern), and to man some of the heaviest guns on land, principally the 15-inch howitzers which had been given to the Army by the Navy. These were organised as single-gun batteries.

Four roles, in fact, and then only if you exclude RMA batteries in other theatres (e.g. SE and SW Africa, Egypt) . We should also include the Anti-Aircraft Brigade, Royal Marine Artillery, and the RMA Heavy Siege Train at Dunkirk.

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rflory

Some RMA batteries served under RGA Heavy Artillery Groups during the Great War.  For example, No. 4 Howitzer Battery went to France in March 1915 under the control of 48th Heavy Artillery Group, RGA and the battery commander,  Major A P Liston-Foulis, twice took over temporary command of that Brigade.  Liston-Foulis, even though he was an RMA officer, later commanded 143 Siege Battery, RGA and 34 Heavy Artillery Group, RGA. He was killed in action on 30 November 1917 while still in command of that brigade. It should also be mentioned that a few RMA officers in 1916 transferred to the RGA due to the shortage of experienced howitzer battery commanders in the RGA.

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